G
Absolutely, 100%\ said:
JUNE 6th 1944....NEVER FORGET
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G
What a great and timely posting Ron thanks for sharing and the added History from all is very appreciated as well. cheers Trey
G
Thanks for the images Ron. Some very moving and impressive camera work.
I don't do politics and propaganda and really don't like commenting on it to be honest, but as you asked .......
I don't do politics and propaganda and really don't like commenting on it to be honest, but as you asked .......
As countries are still sending innocent young men and women to far distant lands to shoot at people they don't know because of some political / religious / governmental dispute ....... Then I'd say the answer to your question is no unfortunately!\ said:
Re the British/Canadians et alter in Normandy.
I'm reminded of an incident at the headquarters of 7th Armoured Division in Normandy.
A Red Army liaison officer, Colonel Vassilievsky, expressed the view that the British advance was very slow. A British officer asked him to show, on a map, the area where his own Soviet Division was fighting in the east. It transpired that there were nine German Divisions on his sector which was over 600 miles long.
The British pointed out that they were facing ten Divisions, including six Panzer Divisions, on a front of only sixty two miles.
The Soviets maintained that Germany's best troops were on the Eastern Front whereas in fact six SS armoured Divisions, as well as Panzer Lehr and 2nd Panzer Divisions were in Normandy and most were opposite the British/Canadians.
Some hard facts that might provide food for though for the Montgomery and Anglo/Canadian bashers.
Cheers
Steve
I'm reminded of an incident at the headquarters of 7th Armoured Division in Normandy.
A Red Army liaison officer, Colonel Vassilievsky, expressed the view that the British advance was very slow. A British officer asked him to show, on a map, the area where his own Soviet Division was fighting in the east. It transpired that there were nine German Divisions on his sector which was over 600 miles long.
The British pointed out that they were facing ten Divisions, including six Panzer Divisions, on a front of only sixty two miles.
The Soviets maintained that Germany's best troops were on the Eastern Front whereas in fact six SS armoured Divisions, as well as Panzer Lehr and 2nd Panzer Divisions were in Normandy and most were opposite the British/Canadians.
Some hard facts that might provide food for though for the Montgomery and Anglo/Canadian bashers.
Cheers
Steve
G
Yes that is a fact Steve & has taken a long time to filter down the truth.
All the men in the invasion, all the Allies what ever nationality, relied on Montgomery. Thank goodness he was there & the responsibility on his shoulders was greater than any on this day all that time ago. What he did was incredible. He was also mindful and very responsible about his soldiers.
Laurie
All the men in the invasion, all the Allies what ever nationality, relied on Montgomery. Thank goodness he was there & the responsibility on his shoulders was greater than any on this day all that time ago. What he did was incredible. He was also mindful and very responsible about his soldiers.
Laurie
Thanks for the pics ron, a very timely reminder . My thanks go to every one of those brave souls who fought for us, cheers tony
G
I have a puzzle about the Landings. A huge invasion effort was assembled on the South coast of England over a long time. Huge numbers of troops, all in uniform, milling around; new barracks to house them; armoured vehicles, tanks, landing craft, Mulberry stuff — hardly inconspicuous, PLUTO (oil pipeline). I believe that the Germans knew that an invasion was planned, but how come (as I understand it) the first they knew of it was when the invasion was half way across the Channel?!
Arguments that I have heard explaining this include no photo reconnaissance because the Luftwaffe did not have air superiority and no satellites; German spies were caught soon after landing and therefore were unable to warn; communications were cruder in those days, only gossip but no Internet helping leaks; The UK had a a friendly population which was unlikely to blab; skilful camouflage distraction hiding the activity; the Germans had the whole of the South Coast to watch.
Still, I am still surprised that they had no inkling of such a vast preparatory operation lasting for a long time. Any ideas?
Arguments that I have heard explaining this include no photo reconnaissance because the Luftwaffe did not have air superiority and no satellites; German spies were caught soon after landing and therefore were unable to warn; communications were cruder in those days, only gossip but no Internet helping leaks; The UK had a a friendly population which was unlikely to blab; skilful camouflage distraction hiding the activity; the Germans had the whole of the South Coast to watch.
Still, I am still surprised that they had no inkling of such a vast preparatory operation lasting for a long time. Any ideas?
G
Steve the Germans knew the invasion was coming what they did not know was when & where.
All air recon. by the RAF was carried out generally through out the coastal areas of France to ensure the Normandy landing areas were not obvious as the landing areas. Full size mock tanks & vehicles were placed in East Anglia to fool the German High Command.
Hitler was convinced that the landing would be in the Callais area. Patton was also in East Anglia & "advertised" as such & was thought to be a spear head commander for the landings. He was not but the Germans thought he was.
The weather was so bad at the time of the landings the German High Command in Normandy were convinced that no landing would take place at that time. Large numbers of top German commanders were away taking advantage of what they thought was a period where landings could not take place due to the weather conditions.
On the Pluto & Mulberry I suspect that the Germans had not a clue as to what it was all about. Their intelligence services were very poor. British intelligence also had caught German Spies & persuaded them (the alternative hanging) to act for Britain & were sending spoof messages to the German Intelligence.
As you have said Steve the Luftwaffe was thin on the ground. RAF bomber command & the USAF were near at their zenith at this time in bombing Germany. The Luftwaffe had a great deal of their efforts put into Day & Night Fighters over Germany to combat the bombers. Consequently they had few squadrons to match the RAF who drove them away to deter intelligence gathering.
Prof. Jones had also had located all the German Radar sites along the fFench Coastline & the RAF set about & destroyed most. An important set of eyes was denied to the Germans. To combat any Radar still working on DDay the RAF flew backwards & forwards across for East Anglia dropping window in sush a way to simulate an invasion fleet heading in the Calais area.
Actually Steve the Germans only knew about the landings when their patrols looked out to sea on that morning & saw the Armada. I have read that even then the German High Command in Rennes would not believe it.
Worth reading about the planning as it was just an incredible unertaking. I would guess the largest undertaking the world has ever seen.
Laurie
All air recon. by the RAF was carried out generally through out the coastal areas of France to ensure the Normandy landing areas were not obvious as the landing areas. Full size mock tanks & vehicles were placed in East Anglia to fool the German High Command.
Hitler was convinced that the landing would be in the Callais area. Patton was also in East Anglia & "advertised" as such & was thought to be a spear head commander for the landings. He was not but the Germans thought he was.
The weather was so bad at the time of the landings the German High Command in Normandy were convinced that no landing would take place at that time. Large numbers of top German commanders were away taking advantage of what they thought was a period where landings could not take place due to the weather conditions.
On the Pluto & Mulberry I suspect that the Germans had not a clue as to what it was all about. Their intelligence services were very poor. British intelligence also had caught German Spies & persuaded them (the alternative hanging) to act for Britain & were sending spoof messages to the German Intelligence.
As you have said Steve the Luftwaffe was thin on the ground. RAF bomber command & the USAF were near at their zenith at this time in bombing Germany. The Luftwaffe had a great deal of their efforts put into Day & Night Fighters over Germany to combat the bombers. Consequently they had few squadrons to match the RAF who drove them away to deter intelligence gathering.
Prof. Jones had also had located all the German Radar sites along the fFench Coastline & the RAF set about & destroyed most. An important set of eyes was denied to the Germans. To combat any Radar still working on DDay the RAF flew backwards & forwards across for East Anglia dropping window in sush a way to simulate an invasion fleet heading in the Calais area.
Actually Steve the Germans only knew about the landings when their patrols looked out to sea on that morning & saw the Armada. I have read that even then the German High Command in Rennes would not believe it.
Worth reading about the planning as it was just an incredible unertaking. I would guess the largest undertaking the world has ever seen.
Laurie
G
Prof. R V Jones was my Prof of Physics at Aberdeen Uni 1st year (1951-52). He was the most inspiring teacher I ever had and he mentioned his radar work a few times and his contact with Churchill. He gave one of the Christmas Lectures (created by the BBC) and was on form. He died a few years ago. One of the greatest contributors to our success in WWII. His book mentions that the reason why Coventry got bombed was that the interference of German direction finding he had designed did not work that night for some reason.\ said:
Can you please recommend some references to descriptions of the preparations for D-Day? Thanks.
G
That is a coincidence Steve. Most Secret War must have re-read it 5 times or more. Fantastic tale & happily he has that knack of writing in such a way to make science easy to understand & very interesting.
I like the way he argued with his mentor Prof Lindeman. His firmness on what the V1 & V2 could do all the other experts were way out Jones was as near spot on. Certainly did a lot for Britain during WW11 at a post which he stuck despite better positions in the science of things.
Books Steve. That is a big ask. Generally I have not read a book on the subject of the planning from first page to last. I have picked subjects as references to what I want to know with all info built over the years of reading. Books from the library which have illustrations with text explaining. Books about the invasion which have gone into incidental detail about the planning.
Not at home at present so a bit restricted. But Montgomery’s Normandy to the Baltic.
Decision in Normandy Carlo D’Este. An American view.
The Battle for Normandy. Max Hastings.
There are so many facets. Mini subs collecting sample material from the landing beaches. The attacks by the RAF on the Radar
RAF photo rec.over the landing beaches & rail systems. French resistance organising. All in books of their own.
It is a big subject Steve without a book with the whole lot layed out.
Laurie
I like the way he argued with his mentor Prof Lindeman. His firmness on what the V1 & V2 could do all the other experts were way out Jones was as near spot on. Certainly did a lot for Britain during WW11 at a post which he stuck despite better positions in the science of things.
Books Steve. That is a big ask. Generally I have not read a book on the subject of the planning from first page to last. I have picked subjects as references to what I want to know with all info built over the years of reading. Books from the library which have illustrations with text explaining. Books about the invasion which have gone into incidental detail about the planning.
Not at home at present so a bit restricted. But Montgomery’s Normandy to the Baltic.
Decision in Normandy Carlo D’Este. An American view.
The Battle for Normandy. Max Hastings.
There are so many facets. Mini subs collecting sample material from the landing beaches. The attacks by the RAF on the Radar
RAF photo rec.over the landing beaches & rail systems. French resistance organising. All in books of their own.
It is a big subject Steve without a book with the whole lot layed out.
Laurie
Steve, 'Ten Days to D-Day' by David Stafford is one of the better ones I've read about pre invasion stuff.....covers both here, France and from a German point of view.
Ron
Ron
G
Ta muchly! I will pursue them.
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