discussion Junkers Ju87B-2 ‘Stuka’ Scale 1/24

[Guest]

Don't know about the "right" color Polux, but this looks fantastic!

Francesco

 

[Alan 45]

I thought the exhaust pips were a rust colour , that's the colour both Italieri and airfix say they are but I think it's such a small thing to worry about mate

 

[Guest]

I think starting off with what you have would be perfect as the black paint would, in the most part be burned away by the hot exhaust pipes. Careful application of some remaining black paint would now just about do it but leave a lot of the burned metal surface as it is.

 

[Guest]

I'm with Bunkerbarge.

 

[Guest]

I have used acrylics and oils, so I will wait one or two days. Once dry maybe I will add another wash...metallic, rust or dark

Thanks

 

[stona]

I thought the exhaust pips were a rust colour , that's the colour both Italieri and airfix say they are but I think it's such a small thing to worry about mate

And they are both wrong

Steve

 

[stona]

Reader of this thread will be aware that I did a small thing for Polux by sending him the rudder from an old and broken model in my loft. Today I got home from a period working abroad to find a box packed with goodies from Catalonia. In an amazingly generous gesture Polux has sent me three (yes three) 1/72 kits, completely unsolicited, for me to build or ruin in my usual way

I just wanted to say a public 'thank you' to Polux and that I'm looking forward to having a bash at them. I will of course keep everyone posted.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Not very clear but there are one or two pictures here that you can see the exhaust stubs on:

http://aircraftnut.blogspot.com/2014/05/back-to-ju-87-stuka-part-3-variants.html

 

[Guest]

Reader of this thread will be aware that I did a small thing for Polux by sending him the rudder from an old and broken model in my loft. Today I got home from a period working abroad to find a box packed with goodies from Catalonia. In an amazingly generous gesture Polux has sent me three (yes three) 1/72 kits, completely unsolicited, for me to build or ruin in my usual way I just wanted to say a public 'thank you' to Polux and that I'm looking forward to having a bash at them. I will of course keep everyone posted.

Cheers

Steve

Restores your faith in human nature Steve!

 

[monica]

oh wow what a very nice thing for Polux to do and likewise with you Steve for helping

in the 1st place very nice indeed to see people helping each other cheers boys,

 

[Alan 45]

Reader of this thread will be aware that I did a small thing for Polux by sending him the rudder from an old and broken model in my loft. Today I got home from a period working abroad to find a box packed with goodies from Catalonia. In an amazingly generous gesture Polux has sent me three (yes three) 1/72 kits, completely unsolicited, for me to build or ruin in my usual way I just wanted to say a public 'thank you' to Polux and that I'm looking forward to having a bash at them. I will of course keep everyone posted.

Cheers

Steve

That's a very nice gesture I always say what goes around comes around

 

[flyjoe180]

Awesome, that is a great gesture Polux. And Steve thought he had finally escaped the world of 1/72. Time to crack out those reading glasses

 

[Guest]

Not very clear but there are one or two pictures here that you can see the exhaust stubs on:http://aircraftnut.blogspot.com/2014/05/back-to-ju-87-stuka-part-3-variants.html

Very interesting link!!!

I can see the exhaust and some lovely winter camouflages!!

 

[Guest]

Not, not!!! Thank you to you Steve

Just hope one day I can help you in the same way that you have done

Regards

Polux

 

[Guest]

Thats awesome of you both Polux and Steve! Pipes are looking good Polux,I have always struggled to get the right 'look' on those myself.

 

[stona]

It's a tricky business, exhausts.

First the stubs were made from an alloy, not a cast iron or similar, and didn't oxidise to an overall rusty look so beloved of Airfix instructions.

Secondly they were rather obviously exposed to extreme temperatures and the resulting discolouration or even burning (I remember a photograph of a Lancaster in which the stubs and part of the shroud have clearly burnt through).

Thirdly the fuel used and way in which the engine is run had an effect on the deposits inevitably coating the stubs.

Finally the exhaust stubs might be subject to some kind of specific maintenance regime, as was certainly the case for the Luftwaffe.

Add all that lot together and you can see why modellers get confused!

References are very hard to come by, particularly in colour. There are a few war birds which use WW2 fuel formulae and therefore reasonably replicate the colouration and deposits produced by their war time counterparts. I posted some pictures of a Merlin like this somewhere.

Otherwise we can make estimations. Allied fuel had a very high lead content and when engines were run lean, as in bombers trying to get maximum air miles per gallon, a very light grey/white deposit and stains were produced. When run richer, as in a fighter using maximum everything, the deposits would be darker. German fuels were made quite differently and the staining generally appears very dark. This was why black exhaust panels and other black areas were often painted behind the exhausts. The stubs themselves were also blacked.

In the factory the exhausts were finished in the regulation black with a product called Kemik Schwarz.





Initially the stubs were to be maintained with this black compound, but later simply rubbing down with engine oil became an acceptable maintenance regime.

These look black.



But it was not always the case. Exhaust stubs may not have been at the top of a hard pressed ground crew's to do list.







I still think that the original black colour is usually discernible and I always use a dark grey or metallic black as my base colour.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Thanks for sharing this Steve.

I think the picture before the last gives a good idea. On 1/24 scale would be interesting also distinguishing the Matt from the shiny part.

One question regarding material, were exhausts of all planes made of alloy?

Francesco

 

[stona]

One question regarding material, were exhausts of all planes made of alloy?

Francesco

I don't know what alloys they all used. Rolls Royce used one of the 'Inconel' alloys (don't know which) that have a maximum of about 10% iron, hence a rusty colour is not likely. Daimler Benz also used a Nickel alloy, but I don't know its composition. I believe the Germans had problems with their Nickel supply later in the war, despite supplies from Finland, so it may well have changed. Nickel is certainly a strategic material, I remember seeing a table about it in the USSBS....might go and look it up

Here's what a Merlin 'fish tail' exhaust stub looks like when you dig it up and wash the mud off it after 70 years.



And it will clean up to something like this.



Obviously something that was iron and would rust on an aeroplane in weeks or months would not survive like this for many, many years.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Wow!

Now we have all kind of information and photos about the exhausts

The problem is on each photo they look different...

I have some ideas, so I will try new paint "combinations" like Trey, I think the exhausts are a very important part of the model as well

 

[monica]

your so right Polux, and do take into account,were the plane was to the grim and rust on the exhausts

if it was wet alot of the time before it was started and flown in rain it would heat and burn in a diffidence way to one in a dry heat,