Much media coverage today of Arnhem etc today, not going into politics but this afternoon a young scrote asked me 'What's that's all about ... ?
Steve
Steve
Lest We Forget
- Thread starter Airborne01
- Start date
I watch a few quiz shows and am always astounded by the lack of knowledge of such events. Although I have stopped shouting at the tv now!! A huge failing in our education system. You almost feel educators are ashamed to teach the youth of such sacrifices.
I still shout at the telly 
I could have been a paras son......my mam once told me her first boyfriend was a para sargent who died at arnhem
Brave fellers
I could have been a paras son......my mam once told me her first boyfriend was a para sargent who died at arnhem
Brave fellers
Often the teachers themselves know little about WW2 and even if they did it isn't on the curriculum. Very sad indeed
I remember in 2020 when it 70 years since BoB ...my granddaughter ... about 10 at the time.....told me they all had done a big project about it at school.....which surprised me.. . Also annoyed me cos if she had told me when she started id have made her a spitfife and me109 to earn her some extra point lol
It's a shame really, kids should know what happened!
The school I work at, they teach about the wars but I think it's more of the politics rather than the battles that change things
The school I work at, they teach about the wars but I think it's more of the politics rather than the battles that change things
Not allowed to do anything with violence in case it upsets the little darlings
Even tho they go home and play violent (and unrealistic) video games
Even tho they go home and play violent (and unrealistic) video games
Alas, That's the way it is at the moment Gents
Similarly, read 'In the shadow of Arnhem' a series of transcripts that is very sympathetic to the plight of the Dutch civilians caught up in the mayhem Highly recommended
Steve
Steve
Arnhem Lift by Louis Hagen... read it as a kid, if I remember correctly, it was a good book
An interesting take from the other side of the hill is this one….
As to the battle, I’ve read a hell of a lot about it and witnessed talks given by veterans of the battle, and can say that though it killed at lot of brave soldiers and civilians, it did absolutely nothing to change the course of the war. It was basically a folly of Montgomery’s designed to take the spotlight back from Patton. In this he was aided and abetted by the para high command who had this airborne instrument and were afraid that if they didn’t use it somewhere then the units would be broken up to backfill infantry loses in the line regiments. It was a classic case of a poorly planned operation rushed through by an overconfident generalship against an army they thought was beaten so that they, the generals, could get some easy brownie points.
The ones that come out of it with the most credit are the Dutch civilians, who have made sure that every school child in the area is aware of the sacrifice made by the airborne army in their name. I believe they still carry out the ceremony whereby every child is allocated a war grave and on the anniversary of the battle they lay flowers on that grave and are expected to remember the name of the soldier it commemorates.
As to the battle, I’ve read a hell of a lot about it and witnessed talks given by veterans of the battle, and can say that though it killed at lot of brave soldiers and civilians, it did absolutely nothing to change the course of the war. It was basically a folly of Montgomery’s designed to take the spotlight back from Patton. In this he was aided and abetted by the para high command who had this airborne instrument and were afraid that if they didn’t use it somewhere then the units would be broken up to backfill infantry loses in the line regiments. It was a classic case of a poorly planned operation rushed through by an overconfident generalship against an army they thought was beaten so that they, the generals, could get some easy brownie points.
The ones that come out of it with the most credit are the Dutch civilians, who have made sure that every school child in the area is aware of the sacrifice made by the airborne army in their name. I believe they still carry out the ceremony whereby every child is allocated a war grave and on the anniversary of the battle they lay flowers on that grave and are expected to remember the name of the soldier it commemorates.
What you say is true Tim, however - if it had succeeded then the war may have been significantly shortened and thousands of lives saved. Hindsight is an easy way out sometimes I think... and yes. the children still lay flowers and pay respect.
Steve
Steve
Trouble is, Steve, it was never going to work the way it was planned. The Brits were dropped too far away and were too weak to hold the initial objectives, and XXX corp were battle fatigued and unlikely to be able to push through as fast as the timetable required. We need to remember the lost with pride. However, we should also remember those that planned this operation should have been sacked afterwards for poor performance. Arrogance and overconfidence in commanding generals has probably killed more of their soldiers than the opposing armies.
Sounds like little has changed. It seems underestimation of ones opponents is still about. Viet Nam and the Falklands. I believe the Americans didn't count on the 'farmers' of Viet Nam's resolve and the Argentinian hierarchy certainly threw snake eyes when they thought they could ride rough shod over the UK.
Just read through this thread again and have a question. A recurring theme from many is that “this history is no longer taught in schools”. A question is how many of you were actually taught about any of this at school? I was at school through the sixties and seventies and was never taught anything about wars or battles except in the abstract terms of political events. We were taught more about the corn laws than we were about the Second World War, and at that time a lot of our teachers would have been veterans. I suppose what I’m saying is that ignorance of these events certainly isn’t a modern thing, and it isn’t a failure of the education system because in my experience that type of history has never been part of the curriculum. On the other hand, prime time TV at the time had major series like The Great War, and World at war for those that were interested, and there were functioning libraries that were well stocked with historical texts that could be borrowed. These days TV is limited to soaps and (un)reality shows, and libraries are hanging by a thread, so perhaps some of the blame lies with our generation for allowing this dumbing down to happen unchallenged? Not trying to attack or annoy anyone, just thinking aloud really.
Short vid of the memorial jump from the BBC News site.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cqlvd41pnk7o
Agreed mate - planning by persons who are not operators inevitably leads to failure unfortunately. Throw some self-serving egos into the mix and the butchers bill rises disproportionately alas
Yep, and the very recent Russian advance on Kiev is yet another example, as was the Austrian generalship at Konnigratz, the French generalship at Sedan, Lee’s generalship leading to Pickett’s charge at Gettysburg, Custer’s last stand, Charge of the light brigade, etc, etc, etc,…..there are far too many of them and they all result in the loss of soldiers for little or no gain….
Excellent topic, Steve. Not too many adults have a clue either.
I hear ya, Tim, but our cultures, western, have shifted their attention to less important things, so there ain't no chance any of the kids today would hear of this unless they did some digging themselves. We homeschooled all our kids and some of our grandkids are being taught in the same manner now and they all get a good lick of miltary history. It's too improtant for them to not know where we all have been, tells us where we are going.
Those books look great for my library. Thanks for mentioning those, Gents!
I hear ya, Tim, but our cultures, western, have shifted their attention to less important things, so there ain't no chance any of the kids today would hear of this unless they did some digging themselves. We homeschooled all our kids and some of our grandkids are being taught in the same manner now and they all get a good lick of miltary history. It's too improtant for them to not know where we all have been, tells us where we are going.
Those books look great for my library. Thanks for mentioning those, Gents!
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