discussion More Matt varnish thoughts...

[Guest]

Ok, now, we all have our preferences and issues with matt varnishes - especially when spraying it, but does anyone know of a truly matt matt varnish? Reason I ask is, having settled on Mig's Matt varnish for armour etc, I have found it wanting, when used on 1/35 figures. As far as I'm concerned, cloth - i.e. uniforms - need to be totally matt. There is no surface sheen whatsoever on Battledress at any scale, so having painted the figures for my PAK 36 diorama, I'm stumped. I even dug out my old bottle of airbrush clogger (A.K.A. Vallejo Matt Varnish), stirred and shook it for hours, and it still has a slight sheen! Grrrr. My only idea is now to repaint all the uniforms with Tamiya paint, as that is, at least, genuinely matt. But I'm open to other ideas...

 

[Guest]

I guess it depends on what paint you're trying to make look matt John. From my admittedly limited experience with acrylics, even the "matt" colours have a slight sheen to them.

Humbrol enamels, on the other hand, are as matt as I could wish for.

The reason that this interests me greatly (other than that I'm an obsessive idiot!) is that as far as I know, all paints begin as gloss & then additives are added to make them look matt.
So, bearing in mind modern modelling techniques, why haven't more paint manufacturers released their entire range as gloss? That would save on the often tricky & time-consuming process of adding a gloss coat for washing.

nb I know some paint firms do have an extensive gloss range, such as Xtracolor.

 

[Guest]

I always found Testors Dull Coat well mixed and just lightly dusted on works fine. Too wet and it will have a slight sheen. Yes, it is a lacquer based product but it works.

 

[col68]

John
Have you tried flattening the finish of the varnish with a fine finishing paper ?

 

[Guest]

John
Have you tried flattening the finish of the varnish with a fine finishing paper ?

I don't think that would work on 1/35 figures Colin - they're just too small with lots of engraved detail. You'd end up polishing the raised bits such as clothing folds, which would reverse the effect that John is after.

 

[rickoshea52]

I used Vallejo matt varnish on my Mig-21 and it looks okay to me. Have you tried any of the Railmatch varnishes? They do them in acrylic and enamel.

 

[col68]

I don't think that would work on 1/35 figures Colin - they're just too small with lots of engraved detail. You'd end up polishing the raised bits such as clothing folds, which would reverse the effect that John is after.

Wish I'd read that 10 minutes earlier never mind didn't like the look of the figure anyway

 

[BarryW]

John, the flattest matt I have found is the AK Interactive Ultra Matt Varnish. I have used it a lot but it really is a bit too 'flat', if anything, for aircraft. Two coats of this will do the job. I spray it neat at about 25psi with a 0.4 needle. Thin it a little for a smaller needle.
http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/60ml-ultra-matt-varnish-ak-interactive-ak183.html

 

[Guest]

I guess it depends on what paint you're trying to make look matt John. From my admittedly limited experience with acrylics, even the "matt" colours have a slight sheen to them.

Humbrol enamels, on the other hand, are as matt as I could wish for.

The reason that this interests me greatly (other than that I'm an obsessive idiot!) is that as far as I know, all paints begin as gloss & then additives are added to make them look matt.
So, bearing in mind modern modelling techniques, why haven't more paint manufacturers released their entire range as gloss? That would save on the often tricky & time-consuming process of adding a gloss coat for washing.

nb I know some paint firms do have an extensive gloss range, such as Xtracolor.

Tamiya XF paints are totally flat, as flat, if not flatter than Humbrol, but then they'll need varnishing!

 

[Guest]

John, the flattest matt I have found is the AK Interactive Ultra Matt Varnish. I have used it a lot but it really is a bit too 'flat', if anything, for aircraft. Two coats of this will do the job. I spray it neat at about 25psi with a 0.4 needle. Thin it a little for a smaller needle.
http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/60ml-ultra-matt-varnish-ak-interactive-ak183.html

Cheers for this Barry, I'll give it a go!

 

[Guest]

I always found Testors Dull Coat well mixed and just lightly dusted on works fine. Too wet and it will have a slight sheen. Yes, it is a lacquer based product but it works.

Ah, the elusive Testors! Never been able to pin any down online, would be grateful for a link!!!

 

[Guest]

as far as I know, all paints begin as gloss & then additives are added to make them look matt.

Well, all pigments are matt, by the very nature of them being ground up minerals, its the binder and mediums that add gloss, this is why Pigment weathering looks so amazing, no pesky stuff to alter its natural state! And I apreciate that acrylic matt varnish is almost a contradition in terms...!

 

[Guest]

Ah, the elusive Testors! Never been able to pin any down online, would be grateful for a link!!!

I got mine from this company, they do spray can or bottle, I bought the bottle as I prefer the airbrush control. Admittedly I got mine at a sow but it's in their listing. By the way, I have dealt with these before by post as well as at a few shows so I found them to be reliable.

http://www.modeldisplayproducts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=75

 

[Ian M]

Humbrol Matt clear varnish used to be very flat when dry. The problem is that if you do not stir it 150% and then stir it some more, it is a great gloss coat as well!
Ask me how I know.
I use Vallejo matt with good success. But again it has to have the sheik shaken out of it.

 

[Guest]

I got mine from this company, they do spray can or bottle, I bought the bottle as I prefer the airbrush control. Admittedly I got mine at a sow but it's in their listing. By the way, I have dealt with these before by post as well as at a few shows so I found them to be reliable.

http://www.modeldisplayproducts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=75

Thanks for that Graham. I'll buy this and the AK that Bwrry recommended, then report back with my findings!

 

[Guest]

Halfords acrylic gloss lacquer sprayed in the cold comes out very matt, absolutely no sheen. It was not the look I was after.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that Graham. I'll buy this and the AK that Bwrry recommended, then report back with my findings!

Just make sure you mix it well. It does, like any matt varnish, it separates very quickly. As you dust it on, you will see it matt down almost instantly. As soon as it does, stop applying. It really just needs a dusting unlike gloss that needs a wet layer.

 

[Guest]

Right! Having bought three more matt varnishes based upon the recommendations from folks here, I can conclude that there is a clear winner! The Testors arrived first, and I also ordered their "Dullcote Laquer" for brushing. Both of thes products work well, and both have a better matt finish than anything I have tried thus far, the brushing version having a really slight edge. Both stinky as hell, but the aerosol really does only need a dusting, so not a huge issue. They both dry super fast, being cellulose based.
This morning, the AK "Ultra Matte arrived from John this morning - £5.39 for a decent 60ml and guess what? The victor ludorum goes to AK - by a clear margin. This stuff is thin, milky and doesn't seem to have solids settled in it at all (maybe the Postie had been shaking it?) anyway, it dries with a totally flat surface. I haven't put it through my airbrush yet, but see no reason at all why it should cause any problems, whereas when you dip a cocktail stick into the acrylic competition (Vallejo), I can tell it spells problems in a long airbrushing job! Worth reminding you that the Mig stuff is very good too, just not totally matt, and I will deffo be spraying the Testors over my last two builds! But, if you are painting small figures, and want fabric to NOT look like leather, the AK ultra Matt is the boy!

 

[Guest]

Good news on the matt varnish front then John! Weirdly enough I've just seen a mention of AK Interactive Ultra Matt on Missing Lynx & that person is very impressed with it too!

 

[Guest]

Good news on the matt varnish front then John! Weirdly enough I've just seen a mention of AK Interactive Ultra Matt on Missing Lynx & that person is very impressed with it too!

Well if you want matt, it delivers, and at a good price in my opinion - as long as I keep the nozzlw clean, and remove it for shaking (keeping thumb on end of bottle, obvs!) I reckon this'll last years! I know I spent £15 in all for these 3 products, they'll all have their uses, and I now know I can do Matt, so job's a goodun, I reckon!