discussion One to debate...

[BarryW]

What a crude job....

Not all D Day stripes were masked, clearly.

The big question is how many were done that way, most? just a few on last minute jobs perhaps?

Anyone any idea....

 

[stona]

All aircraft in service were painted within 48 hours and as far as I can tell 24 hours of the original date for D-Day. This from numerous first hand accounts, squadron ORBs and other sources.

The Operational Memorandum which stipulated the application of "Distinctive Markings", which we all refer to as invasion stripes, was issued on April 18th 1944 but this was not when the orders were issued for applying the markings. The final paragraph of the Memorandum (of which I have a copy) states:

"Army, Navy and Air Commanders will disseminate complete information regarding these distinctive markings to all troops under their command no earlier before the day of the assault than will insure complete distribution of the information."

Underlined in the original (and insure for ensure!).

There is plenty of evidence that this was taken to mean not more, and often less, than 48 hours before the assault was due, before the postponement.

There is wide variation in how the markings were applied. Some are very slap dash, as in that picture, but many are quite neat and carefully applied around roundels and code letters.

Replacement aircraft issued to RAF squadrons after D-Day would have the markings applied at an MU (or equivalent for USAAF) and these are invariably correctly, exactly and neatly applied. Generally they have clearly been masked and sprayed.

The only way to be sure how an aeroplane you are planning to model was painted, assuming it was already in service before the assault, is to find a photograph of it or at least one of its squadron mates. Failing that your guess is as good as anybody's.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Alan 45]

I'd say most would have been done in this way, you know I think they were the blokes that painted my house a couple of years back, it certainly looks like like there work

 

[stona]

All these were painted by their respective units.

They go from very neatly applied like this Tempest.



To neatly applied, but a bit wonky as on this PR Spitfire.



If you think I'm painting around those codes........



Not bad, but could do better.



An artillery spotting Spitfire, operated by the USN. Come on lads, make an effort!



And finally I'm not sure this is working quite as he intended.



There are literally as many variations as there were aircraft marked.

Cheers

Steve

 

[BarryW]

Thanks Steve - that's very interesting.

I will be painting the stripes on Gabby Gabreski's bird soon, the June scheme with the 'wrap around' stripes on the wing. Not sure with what degree of precision his P47 was painted but I now have my excuse if my stripes end up a bit wonky!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Barry that top picture makes me chuckle every time I see it.

The one standing looks scared stiff as if something is going to bite him.

They seem to have managed to get paint in all the places not wanted including on the ground. But remarkably their overalls look near pristine.

I bet there was a lot of hiding behind the hangar & "just got to finish this other urgent job Sarg".

Laurie

 

[stona]

Well Barry, Gabreski was a big cheese, a very big cheese! His crew chief didn't think they'd made a great job of the stripes which were applied with a British paint (unknown type) which they found rather difficult to use.

However photos show a pretty neat job.



There seems to be a border, possibly tape, between the colours on the fuselage. I've never got my mate Nigel (Lampie who runs the 56th FG and P-47 Heaven sites) to commit to exactly what's there. It's up to you!



Overall they were quite neat.



Cheers

Steve

 

[BarryW]

Thanks Steve - reproducing those (black?) borders could be another challenge! they seem a bit shiny compared to the rest...

 

[stona]

It's why some people think it might be tape. I think I can see some white over spray on the black side of the tape,on what should be a black stripe, but I wouldn't bet a kidney on it.

Cheers

Steve

 

[colin m]

That first Spitfire, imagine as a young pilot, that was your first aircraft..............................I don't think I would fly too far from the base in that poor old thing.

 

[Guest]

Every time that photo of DP-R is trotted out, as an example of the "sloppy" way the stripes were painted, nobody ever mentions that they are being repainted (look at the white stripe, beside the fuselage, which they haven't, yet, got to.)

The vast majority of aircraft were painted overnight, not in the full glare of sunlight, and it's always worth considering what a 1" mismatch, between colours, translates into, on a model (1/72", or .33mm, for 1/72, even 1/24 would be only 1mm,) and I guarantee that, after explaining, for the umpteenth time, that your "poor" painting is deliberate, you'll wish that you'd gone for straight lines, after all.

Edgar

 

[stona]

That's right. There are several accounts of aircraft being repainted on the evening and night before the invasion.

Originally D-Day was scheduled for 5th June and many units painted their aircraft on the 4th. The heavy over night rain (one of the reasons for the postponement) washed much of the markings away from some aircraft. The diarist of the USAAF 404th Fighter Group described it as "coming off in streaks." This meant that the markings had to be re-applied before the aircraft could fly missions on the new date for D-Day, 6th June, which we all know so well. There is another account of an American unit having to seek permission to go off base (they were all locked down prior to the invasion) to acquire some more paint locally as the stocks on the base had been used up in the initial painting.

Generally I would be very wary of tales of non-aviation types of paint being applied to aircraft. The distinctive markings for D-Day would be an exception. There are just too many accounts of crews applying what was available. Because the order to apply the stripes was not issued until the latest possible time, for obvious security reasons, there may have been little opportunity to acquire stocks of the relevant paints. It is also relevant that the stripes were never intended as a permanent marking. The order for them was in an Operational Memorandum, pertaining as the name suggests, to a particular operation. It wasn't the first time distinctive markings had been ordered for an operation either.

Barry, I just checked the Gabreski stripes. Nigel reckons those borders, whatever they are, were applied after D-Day and should be left off a model of the aircraft as it was on or around 6th June. He is basing this on Ralph Safford's account of how he and the rest of Gabreski's crew applied them. Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Ian M]

If I should guess that ultra black outline on Gabbies jug looks like the black has been masked at the edge only and the over spray has 'faded' the black. Then the tape was removed revealing the crisp black under it....

Ian M

 

[stona]

If I should guess that ultra black outline on Gabbies jug looks like the black has been masked at the edge only and the over spray has 'faded' the black. Then the tape was removed revealing the crisp black under it....Ian M

But they are also there on the edge of the white stripes that are adjacent to the original camouflage. Judging by his postings on his P-47 site Nigel seems to think that after the initial application (as described by Gabreski's crew chief) the stripes were tidied up a bit. I do know the stripes and how they appear have been debated endlessly over the years

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

From the available (so far) paperwork, it appears that we supplied the paint for both the RAF & USAAF, 85,000 gallons in total. The orders were placed on the 18th April, with a projected delivery lead time of 4-5 weeks, which was cutting it a bit fine! The memos mention primary paint (which I take to be primer,) for the USAAF, but doesn't make clear whether they would use ours (which were grey,) or supply their own.

Edgar

 

[Ian M]

But they are also there on the edge of the white stripes that are adjacent to the original camouflage. Judging by his postings on his P-47 site Nigel seems to think that after the initial application (as described by Gabreski's crew chief) the stripes were tidied up a bit. I do know the stripes and how they appear have been debated endlessly over the years Cheers

Steve

Hmm- Looking at the enlarged section, the dark lines appear to be the same tone as the out-lines around the star and bars...could it be that "the big cheese" got them to neaten the edges with the same dark blue from that? It seems a logical thought.

Ian M

 

[stona]

From the available (so far) paperwork, it appears that we supplied the paint for both the RAF & USAAF, 85,000 gallons in total. Edgar

There are a couple of instances I know of when Americans tasked with doing the painting complained about the British paint, so that certainly makes sense.

I wonder if they updated the quantity of paint ordered as the Memorandum was revised?

For example on May 11th Bomber Command aircraft were exempted by Amendment No.1. That is a lot of very large aircraft which would have carried very large (24") stripes. I hope they didn't reduce the order because a few weeks later, on 31st May, Amendment No.2 included all glider aircraft to be marked as fighter aircraft with 18" stripes. That could have led to an embarrassing phone call to the various paint suppliers!

It wasn't until two days after the landings that SHAEF ordered night fighters flying over the shipping lanes in day light hours to be marked. I hope they had some paint left over.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I don't have all of the inter-departmental stuff, but I'd expect that enough would/should have been ordered, to allow for the odd repaint, after all, think washable paint and British summer-time

Edgar