discussion Panel lines

[BBdave]

Now I know I may be about to pop open the proverbial can of worms here but with regards to panel lines on models I see a lot of folks paint them in making them very prominent on models, but looking at photos and very closely at full size in a museum last week I can barely see them so why do some very highly detailed scale models show them so prominently?

To be honest I don't totally dislike the look but it does seem to appear un scale.

Dave

 

[AlanG]

Panel lines in the real world (not in a museum where aircraft are generally clean) are quite visible so you'll see panel lines. 99% of the time, I only do aircraft from WWII so a spotless aircraft was a rarity. Dirt and grime can and does build up very quickly and more so in sandy or rough landing strip areas.

 

[BarryW]

Agreed. A weathered aircraft does look better if you bring out the panel lines. Particularly WW2 subjects.

They are not painted as such. There are two ways to highlight them and that is an overall sludge wash or a pin wash. Whatever way you do it you need a gloss coat first. Having applied the decals over a gloss coat seal the decals with another gloss coat, make sure the gloss cures for 24 hours before applying a wash. I would suggest trying a sludge wash first (Flory washes are good and controllable) removing the excess with a cloth and cotton buds wiped in the direction of the airflow. You can leave the wash in all the nooks and crannies and in places where dirt gathers. Seal it then with a matt coat.

A pin wash is more targeted for which I use AK Interactive and takes a bit longer. Again do on a gloss finish and do in sections. I clean excess with a brush or cotton bud again wiped in the direction of the airflow.

 

[Guest]

First I would say as I do do what your heart tells of you Dave what you like best. I tend to easy away for authentic colours if I do not like the colour..

In a museum it is clinical as Allyne has indicated it tells little about the state of an aircraft.

If you look closely at panel lines one thing is clear they appear in certain circumstances quite crude and are point where the shape of an aircraft fuselage changes direction and a shadow line appears.

Look at the photo below of a Merlin helicopter in Afganistan. I was very suprised to find the state they got into. But it does illustrate the above also that in many instances panel lines, in this case also rivet lines, collect dust, sand and also just dirt. In a lot of cases away ftom bases in the UK there are not the facilities and when in service time to keep the aircraft pristine.

So I suppose you pick what you want to do. Factory finish or in the field so to speak.

In the Merlin below, and there are worse than this, all panel and rivet lines show up. Plus close up photos show the contours of the sheet metal giving shadows or light differences. The dilemma here is how much do you emulate for your own model. I certainly baulked at all of that one iit would look to much and two I have not the capability yet of producing all that detail.

Laurie

View attachment 95949


View attachment 208972

 

[Alan 45]

I just do it to show off the detail of the kit if that's possible , airfix are making panel lines more prominent causing some builders to question the scale of aircraft, in reality a 1/72 aircraft would not show any panel lines due to the scale of how far away you would be from the aircraft if it was 1-1 scale

 

[Guest]

The panel lines are part of the model kit, so they need his own paint treatment as well.

Here the free style of everyone...personally I like the old, weathered and dirty vehicles, so I like to "show" the panel lines.

In my opinion the best way is the pin wash. If you like a showy lines just paint them with a dark brown colour, if you are just looking for a very soft effect, take the colour base and add only one drop of black colour, thinned it and apply.

If you don't like to work with varnish, just wet the panel line with a clean brush and the thinner, wait about 15 seconds and paint the pin wash. The paint will flow very soft an controllable...

 

[stona]

It's art.

Panel lines were in fact very often taped, sealed, puttied, sanded etc on the real thing. Even when left they are so small they are almost invisible from any distance. Many aircraft did not have butted joints between the skins but overlapped joints, rivets passing through both skins and whatever former lay underneath but given the thickness of the skins these are also invisible at scale model size.

In certain circumstances they can be visible and some kind of shading is essential to make a model less toy like and more 'realistic'. How much you do is really down to the modeller and as I said at the start, it's art not science.

I have a factory picture of Bf 110s with all the joins puttied prior to painting (which I can't find!). Bf 109s did not leave the factory like segmented wasps but painted like this:



Before camouflaging like this:



And maintenance like this, a couple of joins visible in this one:



Cheers

Steve

 

[yak face]

Personally speaking I am not a fan of over emphasised lines , in a lot of cases I feel it can make a model look almost cartoon like . that's not to say I don't think there's a place for them and indeed do emphasise panel lines myself . its just I prefer them to be very restrained. As with all aspects of modelling though its a personal preference and if that's what someone likes then who's to say its right or wrong, not me. Another aspect of this is that the models we see in magazines and on the net are usually treated in this manner and some people may feel that they have to emulate this or they've not made a good model. At the end of the day its your model so if it looks right to you then it is right .

 

[stona]

I couldn't agree more.

At the end of the day it's your model and if you like the look of the emphasised lines or heavily shaded panels then go for it !

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I think that it depends on if you wish to enhance or represent the panel lines. Or if you wish to enhance or represent the accumulation of various things which adhere to the panels lines.

On scale the Merlin in the photo above is viewed very roughly in 1/72 scale.

Laurie

 

[stona]

On scale the Merlin in the photo above is viewed very roughly in 1/72 scale.

Laurie

Which of course raises the subject of what you are modelling. Panel lines on cars, trucks or even helicopters are unlikely to be built to the same tolerances and definitely not treated in the same way as those on high speed aircraft.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Alan 45]

I heard from flyjoe I think it was that the wings on an airplane can't be rigid due to the stress on them while flying and with that in mind would the panels be spaced in a way that would allow them to move ?

If so wouldn't the panel lines be more prominent.

 

[Guest]

I used to hate raised panel line, but after a few kits and knowledge, experience and inputs from the lads in this forum, now I build model mostly based on picture references available on the net. So mostly I finish them off with overall wash after gloss coat. And I always keep telling myself, once you think it looks good then stop, don't overdo it.

Cheers

 

[stona]

Wings undoubtedly have some compliance built in. They are not rigid structures. This doesn't prevent any joins being sealed and smoothed. On the Spitfire wing this was a multi step process carried out on the front 20% of the wing surface. A similar process was carried out on the entire upper surface and most of the lower surface of a P-51 wing. All the joins (apart from removable panels) were puttied and rubbed down using a guide coat before the various finishes were applied to ensure as smooth and uninterrupted finish as was possible.



Such processes are time and labour consuming and were generally only applied to high performance aircraft. The filling, rubbing down and finishing of just the front 20% of a Spitfire wing added 50 man hours to the overall construction time. The same attention would not be applied to a Lancaster bomber, but it would have been built to a set and high standard. Aircraft were periodically taken from production lines and tested to ensure that standards were being maintained.

There is an instructional film which gives an idea of how carefully finished a high speed aircraft, in this case a Spitfire, was supposed to be. This is at a maintenance unit, not the point of manufacture.

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F02334/

The tips for the erk doing the cleaning and spraying and also cleaning of the equipment are just as valid for an airbrush

Cheer

 

[rickoshea52]

As far as I am concerned there is a difference between a skin panel that is part of the aircraft structure and a panel that is removable. A removable panel or access door would, in my opinion, justify a clearly defined panel line. I define a removeable panel as one that can be unscrewed, unfastened or opened for access. Examples would include engine doors, personnel doors, refuel points, panels that require opening/ removing for replenishment/recharging/refilling/rearming etc.

Fixed skin panels are different, on fast jets or airliners, the joins between panels that aren't joggled or overlapped are filled with a flexible sealant and these are painted the same colour as the surrounding surface. It is not unusual to see unpainted sealant though.

Helicopters are generally less aerodynamically efficient as fixed wing aircraft and the joins between skin panels are usually overlapped and riveted together with domed or mushroom headed rivets.

I am a relative newcomer to the plastic modelling scene with regards to the painting techniques that some modellers employ, pre-shading, pin washes etc. But as someone who has been working on aircraft for 25 years, both military and civil, I have to say that the pre-shading fad is just that, a fad. It is unrealistic in my view and I extend that to the over emphasis on panel lines where no emphasis is required.

 

[The Migrant]

I always highlight the panel lines; I think the effect looks cool, but I can't defend it from an accuracy viewpoint. I think it helps to define the 3-dimensional form of the aircraft and makes it visually appealing (to me) but I'd be the first to admit that it's an artistic interpretation. On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of pre-shading every panel line with black paint, but it's purely my preference and I don't criticize those who do. And there are plenty of modellers who just build and paint the model as per the instructions, with no thoughts of weathering or highlighting. Are their models any less 'valid'? We'd have to be pretty opinionated to think so.

 

[Alan 45]

Thanks for that Steve that film was quite interesting and surprising in the fact that most of the methods of painting aply to decorating today

Mind you elf and safety wasn't a big priority back then

 

[stona]

Again, I agree with Mike's post above. Many modellers do something to give what he called '3-dimensional form' to the model. It's what I described as making it appear less toy like. There are all sorts of techniques to do this, including of course the shading of panel lines. Or, as Mike described, highlighting a line with a pin wash or similar.

Others choose not to do any of this and their models are certainly no better, worse or valid than anyone else's. Everyone should feel free to try whatever techniques look best to them and b*gger what anyone else thinks, it's not their model

As someone whose been around a while I do think that the heavy shading/pre-shading of panels became something of a fashion, or should that be fad, a few years ago. It's one I chose not to follow, but each to their own.

Cheers

Steve

 

[BarryW]

I do like to pre-shade and post-shade as steps in colour modulation to create that feel of paint discolouration, bleaching and the general effect caused by the play of light over a large surface. This is different to washes which in my view are more about the accumulation of dirt in strategic places including panel lines. Using the AK washes I am exploring different washes in different areas of the fuselage to reflect the different look of oil,smoke mud of general dust. I course there are also different approaches needed for WW2 subjects to modern subjects. Likewise the environment in which they operated. A desert weathering effect being different to a North European effect and so on.

 

[BarryW]

Further to the above. There are pigments as well these can be used instead of washes or as well as washes to create some very interesting effects. In the Aces High magazine produced by AKI there are some pictures where pigments have been used for the panel lines.