discussion Posing an aircraft model-what do you think?

[stona]

Traditionally we pose our aircraft on the ground to show all that lovely cockpit and wheel well detail. Also we can whip off the odd panel to show a nice gun bay or engine if we so choose.

Alternatively we pose them in flight. I actually quite like to do this as I don't give a monkey's you know what about closing up the wheel bays etc. I'm building for fun and myself,not a competition judge and I think many aircraft look their best this way.

I'm considering a third way. I'll pose the model inflight but with the gear down and all control surfaces in a realsitic position for an aircraft on the point of touchdown. I'll have to make a base to represent the runway as I'm thinking of having the aircraft at an altitude of about three feet!

I've never done this before though I do remember someone doing a Spitfire something like this a while ago. So what do you think? Am I getting senile or might this just work?

Absolutely any opinions welcome!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Probably senile Steve. I know the symptoms well over a quite long period. Also it gets worse, good fun though.

As you have said Steve many times yourself suit yourself & do wot you want. Liked to see photos when you have your trial.

One thing I do think is that if you have struggled to finish a model it is a real shame to put it away so that nobody ever sees it.

My idea is to show all who enter our house my models & if necessary bore them.

My preference is to see them on the ground in pristine (as far as my expertise will allow) condition. But I have no doubt that with more experience & never being satisfied with anything I do I will change as I become more senile.

But already as I am building a Wellington I am searching for new ways to show it. All my models are in the modest conservatory we have (banned by you know who from the lounge) & think I will hang this one as it is so big from the roof tie bars. Large impressive bomb bay so this would suit really well. A lot on display depends really on the detail that is best & how to show it.

Hope she does not mind for that conservatory is going to become the biggest air field seen in a conservatory. Hope springs eternal !!!!!!!!!!!!

Laurie

 

[Guest]

I've seen someone doing a rather nice diorama of a plane either just taking off or just landing, and they'd done a rather awesome blurred-effect runway. I couldn't find it again though I'm afraid.

 

[Guest]

I like the idea Steve, and personally I think the difference of seeing an aircraft posed 'in flight' makes a nice change. I've an idea which combines a display case & flight posing. Essentially, you would replace one of the vertical perspex/glass sides of the case & substitute a piece of MDF or similar. This can either have a suitable photo stuck to it or left painted to suit.

Cut a hole in a section of the model such as the wingtip or rudder, depending how it's to be posed & affix this by means of a clear acrylic rod fixed to the MDF. I'm going to try it with my Uhu if I ever get it finished & show it in flight as it approaches it's target.

I've also an idea about props in flight too but that's still at the R & D stage!

Patrick

 

[Ian M]

I actually think its a great way to show aircraft off Steve.

Yes they look great sitting on the hard top, pits pulled off laying all over the place to get lost. They also look good all packed and ready to go. An Aircraft in flight. Nowt wrong with that. they where made to be in the air and thus look their best.

I did that spotty Jaguar just about to touch down and the 'chute just opening. All the flaps down and what have you. It was a very rewarding project as being that old airfix Jag, all the flaps and such had to be scratch built.

I also posed a Spitfire half way over in a banking clime. I think that the Dynamic you can get into an in flight model will always beat on sitting on the ground. The only thing that really holds me back is the space.

After all a bird in flight is a wonderful thing. A bird in a cage is a bit sad. (a poetic way of saying they will need ample empty air around them...).

I have a SeaFire in the stash and that will (99% sure) be posed hitting the hook. I just got to figure out how!!!

I say GO FOR IT!

Ian M

 

[stona]

Hi Laurie,there has been a bit of talk about yours truly being shifted into the conservatory! It's a bit chilly at the moment.

Matt,a blurred runway.That might be a step too far for me. For the project I have in mind it would have to be concrete as on an autobahn.

Patrick it'll be 1/32 so I'm not sure how well that would hold up,long term,on a wing tip. I will probably use my normal method of a clear acrylic rod into a 'socket' in the belly. That way it is also dead easy to remove for a quick dust or blow with the airbrush.

I'd forgotten your Jaguar Ian! I remember now,great job on the 'chute.

I think I'll try this. Typically there's no pilot in the kit so I'll be off up the loft to find a suitable fellow to make this landing.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I think you are remembering my Spitfire VIII I did end of last year seen here

As you can tell from most of my builds, I don't like the standard "plane on the ground" static display. I like my planes to be in context in some sort of way, whether it is on the ground being serviced as in my RAF Gravesend dio or on the ground in the proper environment as in the most recent RAF Mustang.

When I did the above Spitfire I really wasn't sure if it would work. I'm still not entirely convinced that my solution for the propeller works well (it does but only from certain angles). next time I try this sort of thing I'll have a go with the propblur photetch thingys. Later on this year I'll be doing my Revell Mosquito and plan on doing that in flught to avoid the famous problems with the u/c being rubbish so will be ordering the propblurr stuff for that.

My advice is to go for it but find evidence of how the u/c retracts - it was only from watching video of Spits taking off that I realized the u/c doesn't raise in synch!

 

[stona]

Thanks Andrew,that's the one. It's an interesting pose which is the sort of thing I'm after. Spinning propellers are tricky aren't they? I've been down the same road as you with various discs. The prop-blurs can look pretty good but in my large scale I don't put anything on now. I just fill the spinner and leave the rest to the imagination.

There are many ways of skinning a cat!

The one I'm contemplating is a jet so it won't be an issue. As I only ever do one jet it's obviously an Me262. I'm thinking of it just about to land so U/C and flaps down,minimal aileron (if I can saw them out) and rudder/elevator deflections.

I currently have a work job a bit up in the air so I might be starting sooner rather than later The joys of self employment!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Cool idea Steve, might just have to do one myself LOL!

I did a T-6 Harvard in the stages just after takeoff with the gear cycling, and it gives a nice "real" feel to anyone who knows the way a T-6 UC works.

If you do a landing plane you could always give it som heavy oil streaks out of the cowl and say it is landing dead stick, that would explain the stationary prop LOL!

I know if I land a L-18 super cub at about 3 feet off the deck I will be straining my neck to see over the nose (in a spit you can be ET and still see nothing!) with hand on the throttle ,stick back allmost full, flaps down.

Theuns

 

[stona]

I've seen a couple of decent films of Me262s landing. Definitely full flaps (50 degrees). They come in nose up at a fairly high angle of attack so I'm sure the slats would be deployed too. They make a fair bit of the landing run before the nose wheel comes down.

Here's a handy Luftwaffe training film which shows the U/C in action. There are several related clips which are from the same film.

Stock Footage - German officers discuss landing gear and other operations of the ME-262 aircraft

Distinct lack of rivets and panel lines! I've just read an American report on the Me262 which describes how the aircraft was constructed and mentions the large amounts of filler used to try to achieve a decent finish. Here's a little excerpt.

"larded" with filler doesn't sound too good!

Cheers

Steve

 

[yak face]

Fascinating stuff steve, Im still chuckling at the 'larded ' with filler !!! Would the slats have been like the 109 , spring loaded and automatically deploying at lower speeds? Its going to look great im sure , cheers tony

 

[stona]

Hi Tony. The slats on the Me262 were similar to those on the later Bf109s in operation. They weren't spring loaded or powered in any way. They were completely "passive". They deployed aerodynamically at high angles of attack and were pushed back in by air pressure when the AoA was reduced and the aircraft accelerated.

The G series onwards used a roller track mechanism whereas earlier models used a sort of swing arm mechanism. There are good diagrams of the earlier system on Lynn Ritger's Bf109 lair site. Slats were patented by Geoffrey DeHavilland and I've heard various explanations of how Messerschmitt got hold of them. Most likely they bought the patent shortly before the war.

On a Bf109,when pushed in on their rails,standard practice according to Gunther Rall amongst others, they tended to stay in for two reasons. First the attitude of the aeroplane,being a tail dragger and secondly because of their lightness being of an aluminium material.

The Me262 had a tricycle undercarriage which alters the angle of the wing relative to the ground (when on the ground) and the slats were made of steel,much heavier. You will see pictures of Me262s on the ground,slats in,but they are very much the exception.

Cheers

Steve

 

[yak face]

I remember now , they just kind of 'dropped out' didnt they? Are you going to have to cut them out of the subject kit or are they seperate?

 

[stona]

Luckily Trumpeter have done the slats (all of them) as seperate pieces. I will have to "adjust" some of the other control surfaces.

Here's another short film of Me262s in US hands. The slat operation is demonstrated at around 1'45". As the aircraft taxis away a bit later the slats are clearly deployed.

Stock Footage - In Germany, a Messerschmitt Me 262 twin engine turbojet fighter aircraft which was used by the Nazis during World War II.

Cheers

Steve

 

[yak face]

Brilliant footage steve! the clip of the erk pushing the slats in and out perfectly illustrates the operation. Great shots of the 262 in motion too, if only the engines had been a bit longer lasting and reliable (and it had been utilised in the correct role!)it could have decimated allied air forces, a fortunate turn of events for the allies! cheers tony

 

[Guest]

I don't know if this is a possible solution to your diorama but I saw a very novel approach to a landing diorama in a magazine.

It was a passenger jet landing at st maartens, (sp?), the one with the runway immediately behind the beach where you see the sunbathers lay and watch the jets pass far too close overhead.

It used half a model lengthwise mounted on a front faced mirrored backing board giving the illusion of being suspended midair with no visible means of support, it looked fantastic.

the downsides of course are that both sides of the model have to be exactly the same so things like the camo pattern, front landing gear leg and cockpit/pilot would be a potential problem.

Was going to have a dig through my mags to see if I could find it and decided to have a quick google first, found a pic of the exact model I mentioned here:

http://www.toycollector.com/hwdphotos/nonDB/aluminumovercast2.jpg

Also a few other examples with the effect looking very good on a Stuka.

Free Floating display technique

 

[The Migrant]

I did a similar thing with an Xtrakit Meteor (finished as a target tug), which is mounted on a short length of wire. I did some research about positioning the control surfaces and glued them on accordingly; put the model on the table at a contest and was told within seconds by an ex-pilot that it would plunge into the runway the way I'd modelled it Oh well, the overall effect is still OK I think.

 

[stona]

That looks great Mike. Mine will be "plunging" onto Munchen-Riem airfield in 1945 which was a grass field but if it looks half as good as yours I'll be well pleased.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

That blur certainly fools the eye

Amazing ideas in this thread, can't wait to see the results

 

[Guest]

What a fantastic idea and project, good thing about this idea is it will really get the brain cogs spinning......but knowing your work and skill Steve....you will pull it off.

One thing I do know is, it will be a hell of an interesting Dio....look forwardd to reading the ideas and seeing the project complete.....some great ideas and models in this thread....love the blurred runway and spinning prop models...