discussion RAF 619 Squadron info and imagery - great Uncle was a Sergeant and lost in 1943

[Guest]

Hi people

I am after some help.

I am trying to get as much information regarding 619 Squadron as possible.

Have read through most of the stuff that has come up through google which has been fascinating.

My Great Uncle, CLARENCE BEDBROOK FRANCIS a Sergeant in the Royal Airforce Volunteer Reserve (serv no.1335172) flew in a Lancaster and was shot down and killed on the 18/08/1943 aged 21.

I am trying to find out the specific plane he was in and hopefully find some imagery of it. I would like to build a kit in rememberance. My Grandad has recently died (his brother) as has my other Great Uncle, they were three brothers. Both my Grandad and my other Great Uncle idolised their brother with my Grandad telling me many stories about him throughout my youth.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated regarding research and kit advice - at the moment I am looking at the 1/48 Tamiya kit.

Cheers

Phil

 

[Ian M]

I'm pretty sure that if you contact the RAF they would be able to help. You have his name, service number,squadron and even the date of his demise.

You could start by looking here- The RAF Association is dedicated to supporting serving and former RAF personnel and their families. - The RAF Association

This guy might be able to help Royal Air Force (Volunteer Reserve) Officers 1939-1945 -- B

Good luck with your search. Don't forget to let us know how you get on.

Ian M

the squadron code letters were PG and at the time you gave they were at Dunholm lodge in Lincs

 

[Dave W]

The RAf Museum have a department of research from which you can download informtion or ask a question.Might be worth a look.Just google 'RAF Museum.

 

[stona]

Both the above are good starts. Because,sadly,your great uncle and his aircraft were lost and you have a date,the record of the loss should be easily traceable. I'm not an RAF expert so I can't suggest any other sources however it might help to pose your question on this forum.

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Post under "allied and soviet air forces".

As he was in a Lancaster someone here may also be able to help.

Lancaster-Archive Forum • Index page

Good luck with your search,I certainly hope that you find what you are looking for. With the information you already have I think you have a very good chance.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Thanks guys

Really helpful!!!!

I will let you know how things go.

Phil

 

[stona]

Good luck Phil,as far as a kit goes you won't go wrong with the Tamiya kit. I'm sure it can easily be adjusted,if necessary,to model your relatives aircraft. At 1/48 it will make an impressive memorial.

Do you know if the aircraft was shot down by Flak or a fighter? It may be possible to link the loss with a german claim.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Stona - all I know is that he was lost in the Peenmunde raid but I am not sure what group he was in, from my reading it seems that most of the losses came in the 5th group who were the last wave. German night fighters (me110s) caught up with the them in force and 17 planes were lost from 5th group. I do remember my Grandad having his old flight log books so will be getting on to the old dear about wether these are still around?

 

[stona]

His log book would be invaluable. Are you aware of this?

CWGC :: Casualty Results

Also this narrows your search down to one of three aircraft.

http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/results.php?type=Lancaster&search=&dday=18&dmonth=8&dyear=1943&dday2=18&dmonth2=8&dyear2=1943&pagefrom=1&submit=Search

Steve

You aren't looking for EE147 as your relative isn't listed as one of those killed on that aircraft,down to 50:50 now!

 

[AlanG]

Some of the german nightfighters that were around at the Peenmunde raid were also FW190s. I remember reading a book from one of the german pilots that took part in it. they were holding over Berlin as that's where the 'spoof raid' showed that the bombers were going but obviously it wasn't. By the time they knew what was going on most of the raid had taken part but they flew over to Peenmunde asap and then proceeded to inflict the damage on the remaining bombers.

Losses were 40 aircraft - 23 Lancasters, 15 Halifaxes and 2 Stirlings. This represents 6.7 per cent of the force dispatched

 

[AlanG]

It's not PG-L (EE117) as the crew for that aircraft are W/C I.J.McGhie KIA F/S V.G.Stabell RAAF KIA F/s P.J.Horsham KIA F/O E.G.Prest RCAF KIA P/O P.M.Goldsmith RAAF KIA Sgt F.A.Thompson RCAF KIA Sgt W.A.Mitchell KIA Sgt A.C.R.Chapman KIA

It's not PG_P (EE147) as the crew are P/O O A O'Leary RCAF, Sgt T Underdown, F/S R Crossley, Sgt J T Hubbard, Sgt J H Shaw, Sgt D G Cox, F/S L F English RNZAF

Which narrows it down to PG-D (ED982)

ED982

 

[stona]

BINGO!!!!!!!

Lancaster III. Serial ED982 coded PG-D.

Took off from Woodhall Spa 2144 Hrs.

Crashed into Baltic near target killing all on board.

Crew:

Sgt.AJ Pearce

Sgt. WH Humphrey

F/O JM Warren

F/O LG Davies

Sgt.TB Barrie

Sgt. RD Deugard

Sgt, CB FRANCIS.

Sgt. Warren's body washed ashore in mid September and his was the only one recovered.

ED982

Good job I've got a day off due to my dodgy old back. It's been fun!

Do you have Middlebrook's book on the Peenemunde raid. I read it and probably have it still in the loft. I remember it having a lot of detailed information. Unfortunately the loft ladder is a step too far at the moment lol!

Cheers

Steve

Edit. Sorry Allyne I missed your post,well done! There is at least one claim made by a Bf109G-6 from that night as well!

 

[Ian M]

Dude I just found a Photo of PG-A. On a Danish web site of all places!!!

"Welcome to Denmark"

Dont know how well Google translate will eat that one, but the gist of the text is about two airmen that bailed over Denmark and with the help of the Danish resistance, (yes we had them to). made their escape. It really is a good story. would even make a good film!

Ian M

 

[Guest]

WOW!

Thanks for all the help guys!!!!

I shall have a look for the Middlebrook book on the Peenemunde raid.

Having crashed in the Baltic I wonder whether the plane was shot down on its return to the UK?

I'll be looking to see if there are any photos of the plane my Great Uncle was was in and heres hoping my Grandad still has his brothers logbooks and past them on to my old dear after his death.

I can't describe how helpful you have all been and the speed at which you found out the info...

Thanks again

Phil

 

[AlanG]

My pleasure Phil

 

[stona]

Having crashed in the Baltic I wonder whether the plane was shot down on its return to the UK?

Phil

I haven't been able to check specifically but I am more familiar with Luftwaffe operations. On this night many nightfighter units were drawn by a diversionary raid (Berlin IIRC) and arrived late at Peenemunde.They had to scamper North to get into the bomber stream and I know several aircraft landed at Griefswald not far from Peenemunde as they were low on fuel. This explains why the later bombers on target suffered the most,it was a good night for night fighters,and they would certainly have followed the bombers away from their objective,fuel permitting.

I'm glad we've been able to help. People will always make an effort,particularly when there is a family connection. Men like your relative climbed into those aircraft and took off to do their job knowing perfectly well that,over a tour,they were taking a 50:50 chance on their lives. It's bravery that is hard to imagine and it is very important that this and those men are never forgotten. We all owe him and all the others a huge debt.

Best of luck with the model. Any questions will be answered here.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all the help - here's a picture of my Great Uncle with his family.

View attachment 25233

View attachment 31484

View attachment 144510

 

[stona]

Great photo. Some more info from Middlebrook's book,I sent daughter number two up the ladder for it.

619 Sqn dispatched 12 Lancasters, 11 bombed,3 were lost,22 men killed.

Your great uncle's was the 26th RAF loss of the night. It was shot down,almost certainly by a night fighter, on the homeward leg having bombed the target. It came down in the sea between Lubmin and Stralsund.

Middlebrook doesn't link the RAF losses with Luftwaffe claims and I can see why. I've had a look at the various units opposing the raid and reckon there were at least 17 and maybe as many as 30 night fighters involved. So many bombers were shot down in the immediate vicinity of the target (28 including your great uncle's) that it is a virtually impossible task now to assign a particular loss to a particular fighter.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Cheers Steve,

I ordered the book from Amazon and received it the other day...great read, particularly the air battle part...really puts it into perspective what these guys went through.