discussion Tamiya 1/35 Panther Sd.kfz 171

[Guest]

Just picked this up as an interim model to build up before i attempt to keep up with Patrick in an Italian campaign Elafant build

Doesn't seem too bad a kit, i've decided to paint it up the grey and green of about 1941, used a few reference websites for ideas and inspiration. (anybody got any hints/tips then please post away )

Going to aim for a reasonably well looked after vehicle with just a dusty look, unless it yells out to me to go overboard

The box/sprues piccies.

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[Guest]

1941 Colin? I hope not, as the Panther wasn't introduced until mid 1943 & their first major action being at Kursk. The box art of Dunkelgelb & Olivegrün is pretty accurate.

I'll be watching this one!

Cheers

Patrick

 

[Guest]

the Panther wasn't introduced until mid 1943 & their first major action being at Kursk.

Hmmm seems i have it all about face, i used achtungpanzer.com to find versions and dates and looked at various images on net for pattern and colour then tried to reference them back to actual dates (which is how i arrived at the above error)

bit confusing with all this "ausf d1" and "ausf A" being apparently the same thing ?? i must admit it doesn't seem to sink in ...

I really wanted to do a grey and green, was this used on this tank, text on sites seem to say it was and they were active in europe, the Dunkelgelb & Olivegrün (beige and green to me) being used in africa ?

i'd like to get it about right ...

 

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Colin

The Panther D and A are different. The differences (mainly) are:-

The bow machine gun - the D having a simple slot opening with an armoured cover and the A having the kugelblende mount for the MG (a rounded ball mount seen on the front of the tank).

The copula (commander's hatch) is also different - the D has a simple 'Drum' cupola whereas the A has a cast sloped cupola.

I can tell you now that you have an 'A' version. Also, Panthers weren't used in Africa - the campaign was over before they were introduced. Your tank would have invariably had a dark yellow ground with red-brown and dark green camouflage applied. The likelyhood also would be that this tank sported Zimmerit. This kit is of tank used typically in the Normandy campaign. Panther 'G's were used as well (and, apparently, in roughly equal numbers with the odd 'D' version) but the vast majority of photographic evidence in the Normandy campaign shows captured or destroyed Panther A. If you want a typical division that would have used these then look no further than the 'Hitler Jugend' (12th SS Panzer) or the Panzer Lehr.

Hope this clarifies a few things and helps you in your decisions.

All the best

Paul

 

[Guest]

Well the Germans didn't make it easy by calling the 1st production Panther's Ausf D, and the 2nd run Ausf A!

The types are distinguishable by looking at the commanders cupola, which is a 'barrel' type on the Ausf D & this was replaced by a hemispherical one on the A series. Also the bow MG had the ball mounting on the A instead of the slit hatch arrangement on the D.

As far as camo goes, all German tanks had the basecoat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 applied from the factory from Feb 1943. The actual camo paints, Rotbraun RAL 8017 & Olivgrün RAL 6003 were applied in theater by units themselves.

This only changed in Sept 1944 when most factory production supplied tanks in the 3 colour ' ambush pattern '.

If you want to do a green & grey camo, why not? It doesn't have to necessarily accurate, although the rivet counter in me is horrified at that idea!

Mind you, I've a future plan for a ' paper panzer ' using Luftwaffe colours & a modern twist!

Cheers

Patrick

 

[Guest]

Haha didn't see Paul's post! 2 lot's of the same info are better than none!

 

[Guest]

Right thanks chaps, it seems the bumf on the destruction sheet is also a little inaccurate then from what you've both offered as well.

I'll save the anguish of the rivet counter in you patrick and do a "crew painted" camo pattern using the three main colours.

Hows that sound

 

[tr1ckey66]

Sounds cool Colin.

There may have been the odd exception to this generalisation on paint schemes but you'd be accurate in the one you've chosen. And of course there's nothing to prevent you from doing any scheme you like!

Good luck with the build I'd be interested to see how the old Tamiya kit builds up so I'll be watching this.

All the best

Paul

 

[Guest]

Thanks Paul, i'm not really up with the paint schemes/versions as you've noticed, but i do like to get it about right if i can.

The likelyhood also would be that this tank sported Zimmerit.

this has sparked an interest, got an idea and it just might work

 

[Guest]

All sounds good to me Colin, and my rivet-counting side can relax!

 

[Guest]

Just a little update, didn't do much yesterday as had firearms certificate paperwork to faff about with

Anyway ..... first lot of muck on the wheelie bit, bit of painting, chipping and weathering to do still

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And some rusty bits, not added the pastels yet for soot, might drill the tops out as they look a little crappy just blacked out.

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[Guest]

looooooooooovvvveeeeeeeelllllllyyyyyyyy job mate i like it loads

mobear

 

[Guest]

Cheer's Ole.

Now then this zimmer-frame malarky

There's a few different patterns for zimmerit, and not wanting to antagonize Patricks rivet counter alter ego any further , i'd like to know which pattern was used on this tank.

There's a list of patterns and tanks applied to here but the 171 isn't specified, in fact there's only one Sd kfz noted.

Zimmerit

image is copyright or i'd have just stuck that up ........... and yes i am confused

 

[Guest]

heres a link i found Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Sd. Kfz. 171

mobear

 

[tr1ckey66]

Depends on the individual unit and where the tank was manufactured (different companies had different ways of applying the stuff). If you want to be sure you're better off choosing a particular tank. Google 'panther A Normandy' and you're bound to get a bunch of images showing exactly what you should be aiming for. Personally I think the Panzer Lehr tanks have interesting Zimmerit with a simple 'tile' pattern. Alternatives would be the vertical Zimmerit pattern or the normal horizontal. Vertical patterns were quite common on panthers.

Hope this helps

Paul

Ps. I have a RC 1/16 Panther G waiting in the wings to join my RC Tiger 1 (late conversion). It too will receive Zimmerit (as the Tiger did) but will probably get the vertical type.

 

[Guest]

Here's a pic of a Panzer Lehr Panther, which has the tile pattern. That would be pretty easy to do IMHO

Cheers

Patrick

 

[tr1ckey66]

Just to clarify - the ordnance ref number you quote Sd. Kfz 171 is for all Panthers. Sd. Kfz or Sonderkraftfahrzeug means 'special purpose vehicle'. Also 'Ausf' simply means type. So, Sd. Kfz 171 Ausf A means special purpose vehicle 171 type 'A' . 171 being the designation for the Panzer mk V or Panther.

Types of Zimmerit were not particular to vehicle types more to the factory that produced them. If you read my Tiger 1 thread you'll notice that the Zimm is different on the hull and turret this is because they were fabricated at different locations. The waffle pattern for instance is peculiar to the Alkett company and seen almost exclusively on Stug III because a lot were manufactured there.

Hope this helps

Regards

Paul

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the info chaps ...

I spent a few hours looking through "captured and broke panthers" on the Axis History forum .... loads of reference images to expand on what you guys have offered, so i've got the zimm planned out, plus saw a few extra things i'll try and implement on the model, just to differ it from the norm a bit.

As far as the model goes, it's all together ready for a base paint and zimmerit coating, i must say there's been a bit of sanding and shaping as one of the sprues was dodgy ..i.e. the two halves weren't lined up so the pieces were offset along the "mould line"(?). I've had to scratch a few bits from wire and plastic offcuts.

Will post pics when i get back to the bench.

 

[aaron]

Love it Colin, im into german afvs, Hope you enjoy.

 

[Guest]

Started adding tweaky bits ...

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Looked around for something a bit more workable and that would give a better texture than milliput and the like and i found this...

Zimmerit a la "Hard as Nails"

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I've found it also sands ok when fully cured, can be shaped with a blade, smooths off perfectly with a drop of water ... plenty of time to work with it as curing time is a few hours in this weather, i've used it as a filler on this model and it's pretty good stuff ...... found it in the cheap pound shop/discount stores for a quid (85g tube).

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