discussion Thought this might interest some.

[Bobby Conkers]

While doing my terrible ship in a bottle, thought I'd show you my heirloom - it may interest some of you.



It was made by my great grandfather (James Gronhaug MBE) in 1915 or 1916. We're not sure when as he was away at sea when he made it, then gave it to his son when he returned in late 1916. (NB: this is the history as we were told it - word of mouth might be erroneous...?)

He won his MBE following the Battle of Jutland, although details are sketchy now - sadly word of mouth tales diminish and we can find very little on it, not even what ship he was on. His actions saved several lives, and that's all we have. We think he was based at Scapa Flow for a time.

Anyway, I presume the model itself is scratch built (although this is where one of you recognise it and tell me it's from 1966 or something!). It's in a Haig bottle, somewhat scratched inside so I think it must have been used for something else before.

Anyway, a prized possession (apochryphally) done on a wobbly ship in the middle of the North Sea.

 

[papa 695]

Wow what a keep sake Andy, one to hand down with the stories to go with it. erroneous or not.

 

[stillp]

Was he from Barry?
Pete

 

[stillp]

Not Jutland, but could he be this one:
GEORGE BALFOUR - Mined and damaged on 17 October 1940 when in Convoy FS.310 in The North Sea, 230 degrees x 12,900 yards from Aldeburgh Light Vessel (BVLAS), 115 degrees x 10 miles from Aldeburgh (Lloyds); towed into Yarmouth on 17 October 1940
Awards for this incident are as follows:-
02 January 1942 Gazette Issue 35405, Supplement 127, published 06 January 1942
James Gronhaug - MBE (CD) – when Second Engineer
Cornelius McCarthy - BEM (CD) – when Able Seaman
Captain David Pattison - MBE (CD) – when Master
James George Smith - Commendation – when Second Officer

Pete

 

[stillp]

Here's the Gazette entry:

 

[Bobby Conkers]

Wow, Pete, that's fantastic, thank you. Obviously some conflation of stories then I believed the MBE came from WWI. Ixll need to get my brother to dig out the medal and cert for me. He was from Barry, yes.

Ok, challenge on. My Grandfather, Arnold Conrad Gronhaug did a lot of very hush hush stuff in WWII. He was certainly an engineer involved in the creation of Mulberry harbours, but also hinted at working on those mini subs they used in Norway. Wouldn't go into any detail though. (He was also a director of engineering on the Blue Streak and Humber Bridge projects in his later career, and Director of Engineering at the Dept. Of Environment before having a major punchup with Heseltine and resigning.) We are really struggling to find anything on him!

 

[stillp]

My great-grandfather was also a merchant seaman, and owned a cafe and seamen's hostel in Barry (198 Holton Road). The name Gronhaug rang a bell, possibly he was a guest at the hostel - I can't find him there now. I could check if he's listed as crew for any other vessels if you like? Let me know.
Your grandfather was also born in Barry, 26 Mar 1921. He appears in the Navy List 1942 to 1946, and in the Imperial Calendar under various posts, starting with the Air Ministry in 1953 and last entry is as a Senior Electrical and Mechanical Engineer in the Department of Engineering Services Development in the Department of the Environment. Can't find any detail of his Navy career, as might be expected if it was hush-hush. The National Archives in Kew would probably have some records, but there's nothing catalogued under his name.
Next challenge? :smiling5:
Pete

 

[stillp]

Some of the Mulberry work was done by the Department of Miscellaneous Weapon Development - I used to have a book by Nevil Shute, who was one of their officers, called I think "The Back Room Boys", describing some of the work done there. Must have another look. Here's the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Miscellaneous_Weapons_Development and they have their own series of records at Kew.
They were staffed by RNVR personnel, and your grandfather was RNVR.

One of my other hobbies is genealogy, if you hadn't guessed!

Pete

 

[Tim Marlow]

The depth of knowledge, and willingness to share it, on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Fantastic stuff guys.

 

[boatman]

HI MR Conkers that ship in the bottle is fantastic an something i could never do very well done to your great grandfarther
chris

 

[Bobby Conkers]

My great-grandfather was also a merchant seaman, and owned a cafe and seamen's hostel in Barry (198 Holton Road). The name Gronhaug rang a bell, possibly he was a guest at the hostel - I can't find him there now. I could check if he's listed as crew for any other vessels if you like? Let me know.
Your grandfather was also born in Barry, 26 Mar 1921. He appears in the Navy List 1942 to 1946, and in the Imperial Calendar under various posts, starting with the Air Ministry in 1953 and last entry is as a Senior Electrical and Mechanical Engineer in the Department of Engineering Services Development in the Department of the Environment. Can't find any detail of his Navy career, as might be expected if it was hush-hush. The National Archives in Kew would probably have some records, but there's nothing catalogued under his name.
Next challenge? :smiling5:
Pete

This is fascinating, and not a little coincidental!

My GG's father was called Sigvard, who left Norway under something of a cloud. I think they went straight to Wales, but am not sure. If so of course James was born there, where he married May. You have my Grandpa's birthday right!

He moved to the Civil Service and remained at the DoE. Interestingly, when in Singapore in 1946 he was seconded to the RAF at the rank of Squadron Leader. That's where he met my other grandfather (also Squadron Leader), they remained friends, and both their eldest children eventually got married and produced me. (A tale which deteriorates the longer it goes on...)

I'm going to ask my aunt and brother what info they have, but if there are any gaps I'll be right back to you. Despite the unusual surname, it's amazing it rang a bell with you, and thank you for your interest and knowledge!

 

[Bobby Conkers]

Some of the Mulberry work was done by the Department of Miscellaneous Weapon Development - I used to have a book by Nevil Shute, who was one of their officers, called I think "The Back Room Boys", describing some of the work done there. Must have another look. Here's the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Miscellaneous_Weapons_Development and they have their own series of records at Kew.
They were staffed by RNVR personnel, and your grandfather was RNVR.

One of my other hobbies is genealogy, if you hadn't guessed!

Pete

My Mum had this book I remember - my brother is currently piling her possessions for charity shop runs - I'll see if it's still there!

 

[stillp]

I think I know where my copy is but I can't get at it without moving a pile of stuff.
Pete

 

[stillp]

There was a Sigvard Gronhaug born in Cardiff in 1896.
I don't know if my G-Grandad had any connection with Scandinavia or if his hostel held some particular attraction, but I have a mercantile marine medal that was issued to a Swedish chap.

I'm going to ask my aunt and brother what info they have, but if there are any gaps I'll be right back to you.

Please do, I find the research fascinating. I've pretty well run out of interesting facts to find about my own family, so other people's families are fun!
Pete

 

[Isitme]

Now that was model making - fantastic.

 

[Bobby Conkers]

There was a Sigvard Gronhaug born in Cardiff in 1896.
I don't know if my G-Grandad had any connection with Scandinavia or if his hostel held some particular attraction, but I have a mercantile marine medal that was issued to a Swedish chap.

Please do, I find the research fascinating. I've pretty well run out of interesting facts to find about my own family, so other people's families are fun!
Pete

Yes, I just did a quick check with my bro, I think that Sigvard must be a different Sigvard if my Grandpa was born in 1921. But maybe he had an Uncle (Sigvard son of Sigvard) - I'll check that too.

My mother managed to do our family tree back to 1600 in some cases, but there's a difference between dates and names, and the stories behind them. Do you know who that medal was awarded to? Maybe there was a pocket of (ex) Scandi merchantmen hiding out in Wales!

 

[Guest]

Great story Andy and detective work from Pete, and what coincidences you share .
The boat in a bottle in a master piece of work, and reading about your great grandfather seems well able to construct that .Bet your please you posted this now !

 

[stillp]

The medal was awarded to a John Fohlstrom, who was a guest at the hostel/cafe in 1911. I can't find the Gronhaug record that rang a bell - it might have been in a press cutting someone sent me that I can't access now. The Scandi cluster might just have been because of the sheer number of seamen passing through Cardiff and Barry, which were (I think) the busiest ports in Europe at one time.
A quick search for Sigvard Gronhaug on Ancestry produced Sigvard and Charles Gronhaug, aged 15 and 12, living in Tynemouth, adopted sons of Charles Kuhre, a Dane, in 1911. Both born in Cardiff.
Ancestry can be frustrating - the search shows me Sigvard Gronhaug born 1865, in Bergen in 1875 and 1891, and also Magda Sigvarda Gronhaug, same place and years, but won't let me see any more detail unless I upgrade to World membership, which is not cheap. There's also a S Gronhaug in Barry in the 1911 Census Summary Book, but the actual census page is missing. FindMyPast has various seaman's records for him, but not the 1911 census page.
Pete

 

[stillp]

Update: FMP lets me search for the address from the census summary (94 Broad Street, Barry), which finds the Gronhaug household. The S. Gronhaug in the index is not Sigvard but Sidney. The occupants are Maud, age 31, James, 16, an Engineer Apprentice, Maria, 11, Sidney aged 1, and a nursemaid. A couple of odd things about the census return are that there's no-one listed as head of the household, but Maud has signed it on behalf of Sigvard, and also the marriage had lasted 6 years but only produced 1 child, so Maud must be Sigvard's second wife.
Your mother did well to get back to 1600. I've got back to 1734 on one distant branch, but anything before 1838 needs parish records, not all of which are online, and I don't get out to the county record offices these days.
Pete

 

[Bobby Conkers]

This is fab!

So Sidney aged 1 is my Uncle Sid (great uncle). He was a card. Sort of the Black Sheep, but very likeable. My Grandfather's older brother. So, I'm a tad confused, as that appears that Uncle Sid was born when James was only 15/16, and James' parents aren't there. Hmm.

I need a copy of the tree. I'll see if my brother can scan from 1850 onwards and I'll post it up, this is getting very intriguing.

As for 'our' past past, my Mother had to go to Norway, then back to France as she found a large column of Huguenot exiles. Seems they kept good records, but it explains why there is no info prior to the 1600s, and why I have such a massive conk.