discussion Watching war films.......yikes

[stona]

Regarding the dog problem get a Pekinese and call it fluffy and move on ,the film is about bombing and mass killing and destruction and scorched earth policies. More critical things to worry about than a blinking dogs name.

I agree about the dog but surely the film is about the development of a remarkable weapon in a "bouncing" mine. It is also about a remarkable effort to deliver said weapon in a precision raid with an aircraft which, with the best will in the world, was hardly designed for low level precision bombing. It is also about the very high cost of the raid and its effects (or lack of) on the German economy. Time for a more realistic appraisal of the latter. It should not forget the people who were killed on the ground.

I feel Jackson might make a decent job because of his interest in aviation and because he is not an American. The latter comment sounds worse than it is intended to be, but my experience of recent US made war films has been less than inspiring.

As a Kiwi he must have a better chance of understanding the men of Bomber Command and particularly those who flew Operation Chastise. A couple were his countrymen (Chambers and Munro).

I also read somewhere that his dad was stuck on Malta during the "siege" of WW2.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I would also like to see some human interest here about the people themselves involved in the raid. Also the drive to get all these new bombers & equipment together to form the new squadron.

I also thing that we should get in touch with this Jackson fellow & tell him that Scale Models has available a whole host of experts on the Lancaster, how to make a film & strive to have maximum authenticity.

He should also be told that the dog's name is "NIGGER". That should do the trick I can already see credits here "Expertise provided by Scale Models" and a definite Gong at the BAFTAS & all of that lot, sweep the board. Fly high.

Laurie

 

[Guest]

I actually think some of the best 'War' movies are the ones that follow a human story amidst the conflict and horror. They may not even contain much in the way of action or fighting but the stories of how we can overcome such horrors and hardship are those I think we remember best. I've already mentioned "Schindler's List", which I thought was an amazing film as well as the obvious "Saving Private Ryan", but movies such as "The Pianist" or "The Great Escape" are the best ones for me.

What do we think of "Valkyrie", I think it is probably the only Tom Cruise Movie I have ever enjoyed. I'm sure the historical accuracy is questionable but it did give an interesting insight to the feelings at the time.

 

[stona]

I think that a good "war" film has first and foremost to be a good film. I think that is pretty much what Richard is saying above.

"Valkyrie" was not as historically wide of the mark as some films. There was a much more interesting and better story of failed German resistance that was entirely missed. Sometimes I think that a mainstream Hollywood film has to be "dumbed down" for fear of alienating its audience. Stauffenberg was a man of his time, class and religion and yet as early as 1942 he had expressed his willingness to kill Hitler.

The biggest problem for me was casting a man who is vertically challenged in the role of the very tall Stauffenberg! That's the Hollywood system for you, put Cruise's name above the title and you'll sell tickets, even for a mediocre film like Valkyrie.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Harry on a scale of 1 to 10 with Ridleys Robin hood, id give it about 8, its a fictional story but with lots of fact in it, i.e. the death of Richard the lion heart, The barons uprising, King Johns affair and subsequent marriage to Isabella of Angouleme, and also my very favourite character William Marshal. As for the landing craft they are not a new invention, Ancient Egyptians had craft of a very similar design, mainly used to carrying horses, as did many other races including the Hyksos and Dacians.

Valkyrie, loved it, even with diddy Tom in it, at the end of the day they can only go on what facts they have for a story, but I think if you get the dates and sequences right and if all the gear, clothing, and hardwear is right then it should be an alright film

Paul

 

[BarryW]

I think that a good "war" film has first and foremost to be a good film. I think that is pretty much what Richard is saying above."Valkyrie" was not as historically wide of the mark as some films. There was a much more interesting and better story of failed German resistance that was entirely missed. Sometimes I think that a mainstream Hollywood film has to be "dumbed down" for fear of alienating its audience. Stauffenberg was a man of his time, class and religion and yet as early as 1942 he had expressed his willingness to kill Hitler.

The biggest problem for me was casting a man who is vertically challenged in the role of the very tall Stauffenberg! That's the Hollywood system for you, put Cruise's name above the title and you'll sell tickets, even for a mediocre film like Valkyrie.

Cheers

Steve

mmmm Steve... not as bad as casting that same 'shorty' as Jack Reacher!!!! OK Reacher is a fictional character, but still it was a travesty of casting.

 

[Guest]

Tom Cruise is the same height as me, about 171cm or about 5' 7" tall. I thought he was shorter, sadly enough.

 

[Guest]

Harry on a scale of 1 to 10 with Ridleys Robin hood, id give it about 8, its a fictional story but with lots of fact in it, i.e. the death of Richard the lion heart, The barons uprising, King Johns affair and subsequent marriage to Isabella of Angouleme, and also my very favourite character William Marshal. As for the landing craft they are not a new invention, Ancient Egyptians had craft of a very similar design, mainly used to carrying horses, as did many other races including the Hyksos and Dacians.Paul

That as maybe but I don't think the ancients would have put the loading ramp at the front and I don't see any landing craft in the Bayeux Tapestry. Even if it is 100 odd years later. And in any case I don't think they would have got one across the channel. The loading ramp if it had one, would be at the side for floating dynamics.

They cant even get these Dukw to stay afloat in the Mersey or the Thames.

Water is a funny old thing especially sea its a brave/stupid man that says yes that will be ok.

The best Robin Hood film still remains the one Errol Flynn was in. My Mum says so .

 

[Guest]

Forgotten one film which stands out against all others.

David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia. That had everything. Great acting. Scenery, filming, directing, story (true to it) & incredible music from Maurice Jarre.

I found it an incredible experience at the cinema with 6 sound tracks & the panoramic screen to be a film where you just thought you were in it. Never heard an audience so quiet. The first part was just captivating the sound both music & the background noise so real. The tenseness created especially when Lawrence meets Omar in the dessert & the absolute excitement & expectation when they cross the dessert & Lawrence goes back to rescue the lost Arab. The music in that scene is just out of this world the way it manipulates the mind.

That is a film like no other it broods & keeps you waiting. There is nothing superfluous it tells the story & in many places better than any words would which is testament to David Lean's artistic directing.

Laurie

 

[Guest]

Cruel Sea ......it was on filum 4 the other day in the afternoon just caught the end of it where they kill the sub.

And then it was immediately followed by Zulu I watched a bit of it. The best bit on the film is near the end and they are all in the redoubt and they fire in ranks ,fire ,fire ,fire, fire, fire cease fire.

 

[stona]

Tom Cruise is the same height as me, about 171cm or about 5' 7" tall. I thought he was shorter, sadly enough.

So did I, I stand (no pun intended) corrected

"Lawrence of Arabia", good film but I think I can say, with no fear of contradiction, that it does go on a bit. Then there's the bloody camels!

"The Cruel Sea", just a good film. It illustrates the point that a good war film has to be first a good film.

Cheers

Steve

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[Guest]

That as maybe but I don't think the ancients would have put the loading ramp at the front ............And in any case I don't think they would have got one across the channel. The loading ramp if it had one, would be at the side for floating dynamics.

Contact Dr Cheryl Ward and state your case Harry

She's a professor of history and the director of the CCU centre for archaeology.

She started a project (experimental archaeology) in 2010 with building replicas of Egyptian seafaring vessels depicted on drawing of the time, one or two designs of which (used for livestock and wheeled items) were 'similar' to today's landing craft idea with a drop down 'ramp' at the front, this was above the water line and so didn't suffer with buoyancy issues.

 

[Guest]

So did I, I stand (no pun intended) corrected "Lawrence of Arabia", good film but I think I can say, with no fear of contradiction, that it does go on a bit. Then there's the bloody camels!

Steve

.

Agree Steve the second half of the film did not meet the expectation of the first half. But in like some film it was true in it's story.

On the camel thing I liked that the gait of the camels & that gamely throwing about of the riders. Actually to appreciate the film & likewise the story you have to read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom by Lawrence. The passages of the crossing of the desert in the book, which are so vivid with the camels dying & lack of water, enhance enjoyment of both the film & book or books it is a long story.

It is a pity it can not be put on at a cinema with all sound tracks & the huge rounded screen as it is just captivating. Watching it on TV is no substitute, unfortunately, once seen in a theatre.

Laurie

 

[Guest]

Tom Cruise is the same height as me, about 171cm or about 5' 7" tall. I thought he was shorter, sadly enough.

Are you sure he was not wearing his high heels ? I am half an inch taller (taller ha ha) & he looks to me like youth.

Laurie

 

[Guest]

I have never seen the film Lawrence of Arabia.

I have been to his house in Dorset.

 

[stona]

"Seven Pillars of Wisdom" even in the much abridged versions generally available today needs an effort to read! I inherited a copy of the full 1922 text from my father, but have no idea where it is (I just had a quick look for it!) It is not a historical document either. Think of it as a novel based on facts, rather like an Hollywood war film

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

Cruel Sea ......it was on filum 4 the other day in the afternoon just caught the end of it where they kill the sub.

Cruel Sea a very interesting film. A book written by Monsarat as fictional but as he served in the RN on escort duty I am sure most of the book is from personal or heard incidents. Made when budgets were tight not long after the war. Very well made with again close ups which were rare in film work at that time. Very nice filming with real boats & none of the superficiality of modern films. Some nice cameos when the First Lieutenant for instance beds down the Captain after he had killed some of his own side in mistake for a submarine. Also well filmed after they were chasing a U boat in a 48 hour stint. The FIrst Lieutenant rubs the captain up the wrong way. Thought that brought home some at least of the cruel world they lived in at that time but with some human feeling. When do you get that in films nowadays.

Also fascinating that the Captain gives a commentary during the film which in a strange way gave it an authenticity.

A great story to read & a very nice film from a number of stand points sadly missed in filming now as it tells a human story. All good films tell that human story. Our life revolves around humans observing humans & films that are good do the same. Films with fireworks are forgotten the next day. This is why books are so good as they portray human feelings & that is only carried through into films by the best of directors. Alfred Hitchcock was a master. In Psycho at the beginning of the film as the women drives away with the money. Nothing is said as she is alone driving but her feelings & the tension is built by Hitchcock with close ups of he face with the wipes whirring on the windscreen & the rain lashing down. Brilliant portrayal of stress & what is going to happen next.

Laurie

 

[stona]

...... the Captain after he had killed some of his own side in mistake for a submarine........ Laurie

"Instantaneous echo Sir".........".Fire one!"................................................"BLOODY MURDERER."

Later this exchange.

Capt. Ericson: I had to do it!

Lockhart: Anyway, it's all in the report.

Capt. Ericson: It was my fault!

Lockhart: I... I identified it as a submarine. If anyone murdered those men, I did.

Capt. Ericson: No one murdered them - it's the war, the whole bloody war! We've just got to do these things and say our prayers at the end.

It doesn't get much better than that.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Ian M]

We were Soldiers That was what it was called.! A great film with good depth and a great story.

Surprised no one has mentioned Bridge over the River Kwai.. (?)

Ian M

 

[Guest]

Star Trek's George Takei was also in Bridge over river Kwai (he missed the start of the 2nd season because he was in the orient, filming with John Wayne and Sir Alec Guinness). I met him back in 2008 and spoke Japanese with him at a convention. His jaw hit the floor as it was about the last thing he was expecting. He said that I spoke the language like a Japanese, and I said it was my family talent with music. I can't play an instrument, but I have a way with pitch and tone and am good with accents.

We got this as a result...

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