discussion What constitutes a Model?

[Guest]

I have just recently started a thread in the Civilian Vehicles Motorbike Builds. It is one of the all metal DeAgostini kits in 1/4 scale, which is purchased on a monthly subscription basis over a period of 24 months. Not cheap kits, but they are very well engineered and are similar to the more familiar large scale plastic motorbike kits made by Tamiya and the likes, but are mostly built of metal parts.


One person (Si) has made a comment on my post, that some people do not really like to class kits of this kind as proper models, because they are either screwed or bolted together and not glued. But if they are not models, then what else can they be. I just can't believe that some people take this view.


If you buy something as a kit of parts, no matter what it is made of, and that it needs to be assembled, to make something of it, then it is a model.


It would be interesting to know what other people think about this and what they define as a true model. I have built many models of various kinds over the last fifty years in many different scales and materials, but no matter how they are put together, they were after all, models of something.


Geoff

 

[stona]

I like this definition of a scale model:


A three-dimensional representation of an object or structure having all parts in the same proportion of their true size.


It doesn't matter what it's made of, or how it's put together.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

I'd agree with Steve - if it's built up from individual parts, then it's a model.


The tools or equipment used to construct it doesn't matter IMHO.

 

[eddiesolo]

Yep, totally agree. I know that some 'so called modelers' seem to be stuck in this mind of a model should be made and painted by the modeler, pre-painted kits are not for true modelers.


Like you guys I find this a very outdated way of thinking and I think it can do harm to younger modelers wanting to try.


There is room in this hobby for scratch builders, engineers, plastic makers and even doing up diecast etc.


Build what you want when you want to what your budget will allow, but most of all, have fun.


Si

 

[eddiesolo]

One person (Si) has made a comment on my post

Not me guys regarding that I don't think Geoff's build isn't a model.

 

[Guest]

This is an endless answer. I used to make cranes and tanks out of Meccano. Balsa wood gliders and Spitfires.


I called those models when a kid. Now its Leggo.


Those that fly models certainly in a lot of cases are aircraft and helicopters which are not real in fact at least


in some case to scale or proportion. But to me they are crafted models.


True raw model making I suppose must be taking raw materials and fashioning to produce as Steve has portrayed


A three-dimensional representation of an object or structure having all parts in the same proportion of their true size.


Who ever this bod is he is a pedant. Why does he look in if he does not like what he sees.


So just carry on glueing and bolting Geoff. Like art there are so many ways of producing artistic pieces by brush,


by chipping at wood, by sculpture and welding and brazing metal. Even piling a load of bricks in the corner


or demolishing a property.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

Build what you want when you want to what your budget will allow, but most of all, have fun.

Quite right Si. Such eloquence.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

When I was a youngster my Dad used to look down on plastic kits stating quite regularly that they weren't 'proper' models as all the work was done for you. His idea of modelling was scratch built from wood using carving and many more traditional techniques. Mind you it didn't stop him building a plastic kit of the Victory!


I think Steve's definition is perfect and I also like the fact that it omits to mention scale as we mustn't forget that a model may be larger than the real life item (insect demonstration models, molecular models, biological models etc.) or even the same size, (fibre glass Spitfires as gate guards spring to mind and movie sets are endless) but at the end of the day the fact that it is a representation of the real thing is what is important not how it is constructed. I have a big collection of ready built Minichamps 1/12 scale bikes. I have done absolutely nothing to them but they are still models. I also have a plastic factory built Tamiya Bismarck, which again I have done nothing to but it is still a model.


Then again we can open up the old argument of whether a model of the Starship Enterprise is really a model as it does not represent a real thing!


I'm afraid to me the whole argument is a bit pointless and the very fact that we feel the need to categorise any form of modelling a complete waste of time. What is important is the fact that someone wants to own something that they will enjoy looking at. They may enjoy building it, in which case they will get satisfaction from the build, or they may just enjoy looking at it afterwards, in which case they may well not want to bother with the build. And before anyone decries that displaying a model that you haven't built is somehow 'cheating' how many of us hang a beautifully painted picture on our wall that we haven't painted? I can just imagine the look on the face of the Picasso owner who is told he is cheating because he didn't paint it!!!


As Si says, the most important aspect is that we enjoy what we do and we all have our own way of doing that, whether it is plastic kits, wooden kits or model engineering but who cares? Anyone who can look at a five and a half inch scratch built model locomotive, which doesn't have a scrap of plastic in it and is completely held together with mechanical fasteners, and doesn't consider it a proper model are, to me anyway, really missing the point of modelling, which is nothing more than enjoying your hobby.

 

[Gern]

Taken from Chamber's dictionary:


model - n. an imitation of something on a smaller scale.


We got all sorts of models on here, ranging from Ron's dios made from pizza bases and garage sweepings, to hand-sculpted models made from clay, wood, metal and a host of other materials, to plastic kits with aftermarket resin, PE, white metal, vacform canopies, decals and all sorts of scratch built parts, along with mixtures of any and all of those methods. What your kit is made from, and how it's put together are irrelevant - you're making a scale representation of an object. By the definition in Chamber's dictionary, that's a model. Therefore you're a modeller.


'nuff said!


PS My post crossed with Richard's so there's some repetition. I didn't copy his ideas! Honest!


Keep up the good work.

 

[PaulTRose]

i think it all comes down to what sort of modeller you are


i once met a guy who was an engineer by trade............his hobby was making model ships, in metal, from scratch.......used to lathe and mill bits up in his garage.....showed me a 3 foot long Flower class ship......took him 3 years.....my jaw hit the ground....was one of best things ive ever seen


i used to work with a guy who was into r/c...started off with planes, then sea planes, then helos, now hes into turbines...he would build his planes from plans or bought bits and assemble them


neither of these guys used much plastic like we do, but i would certainly class that they did as 'models'........superb examples of engineering, yes......working flying examples of reproduction aircraft, yes......but still models


for years ive been putting off having a crack at a balsa/tissue paper aircaft, id still call it a model


as for using a screwdriver.....lots of tamiya bike kits involve using screws to attached stuff like wheels and yokes and engine to frames


all horses for courses really.....to be honest i like to see different stuff being put together.....variety is the spice and all that....and i get tips/ideas from it too

 

[Guest]

I still think the best model I've seen was Kelly le Brock in Wierd Science!!

 

[Guest]

Doesn't matter if it is glued, screwed or welded to me, nor what materiel is used if it is a representation of a full size object then it is a model to me,

 

[Alan 45]

I agree a model is something that is smaller than the original and it does not matter how it's put together


Some in our club though think a model is what's on the box , ie if it looks the same as the pick on the box it's come in its a model


If you tamper with it make into something else its engineering and not modelling

 

[stona]

I don't think a model has to be smaller


In a past life I used to make models of organic molecules to show the position of the various atoms and groups, and how minor changes in geometry can have a profound effect on what a molecule might or might not do. Those models were obviously many, many times bigger than the molecules they represented, but surely they were still models!


Many people will have seen some kind of model of the famous double helix that makes our own DNA. Just like an architectural model (which is scaled in the reverse, being much smaller than the object it represents) it makes something difficult to visualise visible.


I often include an in scale figure with my models to help people understand the size of the full size object, a trick I picked up from architectural models..


Richard has really worried me by suggesting that the star ship Enterprise isn't real !!!


Cheers


Steve

 

[takeslousyphotos]

If it's in bits when you get it and have to put it together, whatever it is made of and how you put it together............. Then it's a model.

 

[rickoshea52]

Is a model railway a model? Most railway loco's and rolling stock are ready to run straight from the box but they are still considered models.

 

[Alan 45]

That's a good point Rick , it's still a model it's just been made for you , but some might consider that a toy when it comes to railways I suppose they could say well you play with a railway , this could also be implied to scale aircraft flyers


That's not what I think by the way just adding another option to the debate

 

[Guest]

...So I suppose my 1/8 Pocher Aventador - that I added TONS of detail, extras, engine wiring, plumbing, carpets, fabricating an easily entire rear end removal for engine viewing.....


It isn't a model????


It is also virtually all screwed together and many parts pre-painted.


Are the 'classic' Pochers' not models either then?


They go together with screws, nuts, bolts and MANY people who build them don't paint anything as all the parts are pre-coloured plastic. (I paint mine)


Sorry for the abundance of pictures, but comments like that bug me.


Virtually EVERY piece of wiring/plumbing in my Aventador is added by me - as are all my Pocher's.


Every stitch on the seats was hand painted.


It makes no odds whether the model is built OOB, or with extra detail - it's still a model.


Whoever said these things aren't - dream on.....


Roy.


View attachment 116338



View attachment 116339



View attachment 116340



View attachment 116341



View attachment 116342



View attachment 116343



View attachment 116344



View attachment 116345



View attachment 116346



View attachment 116347



View attachment 116348



View attachment 116349



View attachment 116350



View attachment 116351



View attachment 116352


View attachment 229361

View attachment 229362

View attachment 229363

View attachment 229364

View attachment 229365

View attachment 229366

View attachment 229367

View attachment 229368

View attachment 229369

View attachment 229370

View attachment 229371

View attachment 229372

View attachment 229373

View attachment 229374

View attachment 229375

 

[Guest]

If it's in bits when you get it and have to put it together, whatever it is made of and how you put it together............. Then it's a model.

I've had motorbikes like that!

 

[Guest]

I think we are all in agreement that a 'model' is what we individually want it to be, there are no rights or wrongs and we all enjoy doing what we individually like doing.


Sums it up for me.


By the way my heartfelt apologies to Steve, it was a slip of the finger, the Starship Enterprise is of course real, as is the Millenium Falcon, Colonial Vipers and Darth Vader's Tie Fighter.