Revell 1/32 Heinkel He111P

[stona]

Galland must have had balls like grapefruit to front up to the Reichs Marshall if it is true!Paul

He was the figure head of what amounted to a mutiny by several senior officers in the Jagdwaffe towards the end of the war.

You are right that the Spitfire/109 debate is pointless.

Cheers

Steve

[tr1ckey66]

Galland - A measure of the man's stature I guess.

Yes, I think the 2 aircraft both had their merits and I too think it's a bit pointless debating No1 fighter.

I hope you do get the Heinkel, I'm pretty sure you'd probably finish it before me and I'm damn sure you'd make a bloody good job of it!

It looks like your kinda kit if I can say that. It's got your name written all over it! LOL

Cheers

Paul

Cheers

Paul

[stona]

I did a little digging after we won the BoB again last night. There is an annoying revisionist history now that would have it declared a draw,but I'm not buying that!

According to Galland,interviewed in english in the 1970s, he said "give me Spitfires for my wing". We'll have to take his word for it as there is no corroboration from any of the other officers present.

I'm definitely considering a He111 to go with the big Ju88. I've just started another project for the Group Build,hopefully more straight forward than the PCM Hurricane. Maybe after that.

Cheers

Steve

[BarryW]

Well it seems as though KG 27 is the way forward (shame though cos the Totenkopf decals are pretty cool). Even then it is possible that the paint scheme of the KG 27 aircraft could have been changed before the BoB as the Balken Kreux look to be from an old scheme.Just watching a few being shot down on telly! The BoB is a seriously good wartime aerial flick! I doubt you could do much better even with all the CGI of today, and the actors are serious greats

Paul

Its certainly one of my top 3 films...

I been wondering whether an update to the film might be a good idea, using CGI to correct some of the inaccuracies in the hardware, (bf 109 E's for instance, not those Spanish Airforce versions with the chin rad).

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Barry

I take your point about the 109s, also some of the aircraft explosions on the ground clearly look like wood and canvas mock ups, but that's not to detract from a great film. I don't think it's the worst offender either, 'The Battle of the Bulge' has some seriously dodgy hardware! I'm not against a remake in principle so long as the story remains compelling and the performances are good. That said, and I'm probably going to be shot to pieces for this (and I'm no Barry Norman!), don't you think that Olivier's Dowding is a bit hammy?

Steve - It would be great to have you on board for a VSIG (very special interest group) build of this kit! What about the same Geschwader different aircraft?

I'm also considering a wheels up version together with the PCM Hurri for a combat/photoshop shot - a bit like this one I did of the 1/48 Tamiya Mk1 Spit. In effect I'd be trying to do a film still from the movie Barry describes



Cheers

Paul

[stona]

There are plenty of "errors" in the BoB film. The Merlin engined Buchons standing in for the Bf109s is the most obvious. What else could they do forty odd years ago? It would be churlish to dwell on a few historical inaccuracies. I watched the film for the first time in ages last night and thoroughly enjoyed it! Most people can't tell a Ju88 from an He111 or even a Spitfire from a Hurricane so all in all I think they did an outstanding job. It's hard to imagine that the film is historically closer to the actual battle than we are to the film.

Olivier always seems a bit hammy to me but then I'm no film critic either. Remember Peter Sellers doing "It's been a hard day's night" in the style of Sir Larry. I think his reputation as a bit of a ham is nothing new.

I'd be up for some kind of group effort on the He111. I've still got half an eye on this scheme.

But who says I can't build more than one,if I can get the boxes in past "customs".

Cheers

Steve

[tr1ckey66]

That's a great scheme Steve. I've seen it modelled in 1/72, I have the book (with the incredibly long title) "The Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain 1940, from profile to model - A guide to building model Luftwaffe Aircraft" There's a great build of the Hasegawa kit as White E - KG 55. It does look stunning.

I've just read a slightly disturbing report on a build of the Revell He 111 elsewhere that the MG 15s are undersized. They are even smaller than the MG 15s supplied with the JU88!? This is not just the barrel but the whole gun and ammo boxes which the author claims are closer to 1/48 than 1/32!

If you can get them past customs then I'd be interested in both subsequent build threads.

Just found Sellers/Larry/Beatles skit on YouTube - hilarious

Paul

[stona]

What codes did they put on that build Paul? I'm guessing G1+E? but I don't know the last (Staffel) letter. Bombers aren't my usual thing!

Cheers

Steve

[tr1ckey66]

I'm on the train at the mo, visiting some friends for lunch. When I get back I'll take a closer look and try and get you the answer. It's a good book btw with builds of the 1/32 ju88, 1/32 109e1 from Eduard, 1/32 me110 by Dragon etc. There are very good shots of the finished He 111 so I'm pretty sure I can supply you with an answerCheersPaul

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Steve

Just checked the book and they haven't put any code letters on at all apart from the 'E'. There's even a colour profile of it but no other letters. The unit emblem just behind the cockpit area on the fuselage is of a red lion rearing up with black wings on a white shield with a red border.

There is a series of photographs of the real machines. One of them (White J) seems to have another letter or number after the J but it's hard to make out what this is (looks like the number 9?!)

Hope this helps

Paul

[BarryW]

Hi BarryI take your point about the 109s, also some of the aircraft explosions on the ground clearly look like wood and canvas mock ups, but that's not to detract from a great film. I don't think it's the worst offender either, 'The Battle of the Bulge' has some seriously dodgy hardware! I'm not against a remake in principle so long as the story remains compelling and the performances are good. That said, and I'm probably going to be shot to pieces for this (and I'm no Barry Norman!), don't you think that Olivier's Dowding is a bit hammy?

Steve - It would be great to have you on board for a VSIG (very special interest group) build of this kit! What about the same Geschwader different aircraft?

I'm also considering a wheels up version together with the PCM Hurri for a combat/photoshop shot - a bit like this one I did of the 1/48 Tamiya Mk1 Spit. In effect I'd be trying to do a film still from the movie Barry describes



Cheers

Paul

That is a superb picture Paul. If I looked at it without your blurb I would have been wondering how on earth in 1940 could someone have taken such a shot with the camera equipment of the day....

Yes the BoB film, despite understandable technical inaccuracies is brilliant. That is why I am wondering if, not a full remake, but a new digitised cut correcting the errors with CGI effects would be possible. A task for the 75th anniversary of the Battle for a re-release of the film maybe..... Wishful thinking.

[stona]

Thanks Paul,it seems odd that they would overpaint the unit code (G1) and the Staffel letter but leave the aircraft's code letter,but as the black paint was supposed to be temporary I suppose anything is possible. The codes should have been repeated under the wings in black as well. I bet those were indeed over painted.

One of the interesting things about this hobby is the little conundrums that are thrown up...just like this!

I've got the emblem in one of my books somewhere.

Some of the mock ups used in the BoB film and obviously not blown up can still be seen at the BoB museum in Ashford. They are pretty convincing,even from a few feet away.

Cheers

Steve

[Ian M]

Hej If you guys really want a SIGB set up for this bird just let me know and I will set something up.

Ian M

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Steve, a little more info...

The author's build in this book is without any national markings on the wings (either upper wing, which is obvious from the photograph, nor the lower wing). The national crosses on the fuselage and the letter 'E's have had their insides brushed paint (quite crudely) I suppose to make them less visible. It looks like a very crude scheme overall - the black underneath the wings is airbrushed on in a heavy mottling to total coverage.

Looks like a great subject for a model though.

Ian, I'd be up for a SIG build setting up but I'd prefer one with no end date if poss as I'm unsure as to when I'll get round to this build. It would be great if Steve's and my own build coincided time wise. I think it would be fascinating to get 2 perspectives on the kit. Also, and rather selfishly, he is a mine of info on all things 'Luftwaffe' and I may need the help to get an historically correct machine!

Barry - thank you very much for your kind comments on the Spitfire photo. I'd love to finish the He 111 in the same fashion - wheels up, motorised props, together with the 1/32 PCM hurricane (which Steve has also just finished superbly) giving chase. I think I could get a nice set of combat photos out of it. There are 2 slight complications to such a build though; a) I'd have to build a crew for the Heinkel (scratch build or figure alts again), b) with such a massive subject the physical space required to photograph it might be an issue. I don't think either point is insurmountable though.

Cheers

Paul

[stona]

I've just been investigating the rules for the application of "removable night camouflage" or aviation lacquer 7120.22. They were formalised in LDv 521/1 in November 1941. I suspect this was an effort to prevent the sort of thing seen on the He111 of KG 55 above.

It's a fairly tedious read but the salient points are.

An insulating coating (JS 238) was to be applied before the black coat.

Only areas already finished in RLM 65 were to be covered.

Fuselage sides were to be painted up to the upper edge of the Balkenkreuze.

Rudder and stabilisers to be completely overpainted.

Swastikas to be entirely overpainted.

Balkenkreuze (white angle and black bars) to be fully covered.

The next one is so good I'll quote it in full.

"Colour will normally be painted on with normal ceiling rollers. These are soft and pliable and ensure a good coat."

Finally a real bummer for the ground crews.

"The night camouflage must be removed without fail after a maximum of 8 days operations (or earlier if damage has occurred)".

Cheers

Steve