Health update.

[BarryW]

Apart from the fact there are too many levels of management with a corresponding lack of responsibility/culpability perhaps ... :thinking:
Steve

I agree about the excessive management and a lack of willingness to take responsibility, but that is a different issue to the contracting out of services in general.

[Airborne01]

I agree about the excessive management and a lack of willingness to take responsibility, but that is a different issue to the contracting out of services in general.

I agree about the excessive management and a lack of willingness to take responsibility, but that is a different issue to the contracting out of services in general.

Essentially yes Barry
Steve

[Tim Marlow]

Apart from the fact there are too many levels of management with a corresponding lack of responsibility/culpability perhaps ... :thinking:
Steve

Exactly the opposite in my experience Steve. All the middle managers with this sort of responsibility have been sacrificed on the altar of “cost saving” over the years. Responsibility has either been pushed up to those who only look at the balance sheet, or down to those that are so overworked they cannot do the task justice. In public service the idea of too many levels of management is actually a myth.

[Tim Marlow]

Actually I have extensive experience in the contracting out of services going back to the early days in the 80’s when I was an elected councillor and, more latterly as part of school governance.

It is not as black as you suggest. There are good contracts and bad contracts, the bad contracts are the fault of the client side not the contractor. A contractor will naturally try to get away with things but if the contract is drawn well they must meet a required service level or get penalised. Good contract supervision is the key to good services. In my schools we now have an excellent catering contractor to which they are held to a decent standard. There is no reason why the NHS should not do the same.

I’ve had to deal with most of the “big players” in these fields in my career Barry, most of it spent under the auspices of the NHS, and my experience is diametrically opposite to yours. Whoever came up with the idea of “framework partners”, for example, should be taken out and shot. Because of decisions taken at government board level we were only allowed to deal with certain companies. For example, recruitment had to be carried out through about a dozen named agencies. None of them were local to us, and all were geared to provide doctors and nurses. I needed technicians so got absolutely no joy from them. When I started I was allowed to post my own adverts in local papers and could easily get sixty applicants for our roles. By the time I left we were using this partner system and I was lucky to get any applicants at all. We didn’t need to put anything through HR though, so it was much more efficient…..not!

[Tim Marlow]

I agree about the excessive management and a lack of willingness to take responsibility, but that is a different issue to the contracting out of services in general.

Don’t ever remember working with an NHS employed manager that wouldn’t take responsibility for their role Barry. Worked (or tried to) with dozens from the private sector though! Most contract staff (especially engineering and maintenance) seemed to work from Monday to Thursday mid afternoon, with long breakfast and lunch breaks. The personnel changed so regularly there was no continuity of service at all. My experience of contract supplied staff was unremittingly dire to be absolutely honest.

[Airborne01]

I think that, perhaps, my response was somewhat simplistic. I feel that the service has become 'top heavy' with many senior managers having roles that are apparently duplicated, or have little or no real relevance (such as the diaspora of people involved in the politically correct agenda) to the dispensing of a premium and focused health service. I think, for example, the loss of experienced and professional Matrons, replaced by expensive upper management focused on bean counting has been a great dis-service to the original NHS concept( and, yes, I understand times change and there is a need for financial prudence etc.etc)
Steve

[Tim Marlow]

I think that, perhaps, my response was somewhat simplistic. I feel that the service has become 'top heavy' with many senior managers having roles that are apparently duplicated, or have little or no real relevance (such as the diaspora of people involved in the politically correct agenda) to the dispensing of a premium and focused health service. I think, for example, the loss of experienced and professional Matrons, replaced by expensive upper management focused on bean counting has been a great dis-service to the original NHS concept( and, yes, I understand times change and there is a need for financial prudence etc.etc)
Steve

I think that’s more or less what I was trying to say Steve. Middle management plans and organises resources and staff to obtain the required results, and carries out a monitoring function to ensure quality is maintained. Unfortunately, they were an “easy target” for modernisation, being replaced with fewer higher managers that are basically contract runners for the organisational threads they controlled. On the surface it looks like a layer of management has been simplified or removed, but in actuality you have added another layer (the contract runner). The rest is still done, by a middle manager, except you are paying an alternative organisation to employ them and carry out the planning function, costing more money and having little flexibility to change requirements along with circumstances. The PC agenda is pretty much a media invention, by the way. I never came across anyone employed for that express purpose in 36 years.

[BarryW]

I think that, perhaps, my response was somewhat simplistic. I feel that the service has become 'top heavy' with many senior managers having roles that are apparently duplicated, or have little or no real relevance (such as the diaspora of people involved in the politically correct agenda) to the dispensing of a premium and focused health service. I think, for example, the loss of experienced and professional Matrons, replaced by expensive upper management focused on bean counting has been a great dis-service to the original NHS concept( and, yes, I understand times change and there is a need for financial prudence etc.etc)
Steve

I think you are spot on.

In the essentials that I am currently experiencing I cannot fault the treatment I have received.

The issues are behind the scenes not with hard working clinical staff. Why on earth do they think it is more important to employ Diversity Managers with supporting infrastructure instead of extra nurses and doctors. It makes zero sense to anybody. This nonsense has infected much of education as well.

[boatman]

HI BARRY JEN AN I HOPE YOU GET BETTER SOON

[Richard48]

Gosh Barry.Truly sorry to read about this.Really been through the mill mate.Shame not closer coz we could bring some rations in which are more palatable.
Wishing you all the very best for a speedy recovery.
Richard and Helen.

[Tworrs]

I can only wish you the very best Barry, have faith mate.
I had the opposite during my hospital stays in Christchurch General Hospital in NZ, the food was amazing, the chef even delivered an outstanding meatloaf with mash and veg to me, so good that I asked for the recipe, not that I got it though.
Perhaps your next vacation spot closer to home will be better, I hope so.
Just follow the medical team's advice and do the physio religiously.
All the best again mate.
Garry

[BarryW]

Thank you everyone for the good wishes.
At times line this we really do see the best in people.

[Guest]

Sorry to read of your health problems Barry, hope you improve asap .
Take care .

[Ian M]

Wow. That was a bit of a shocker.
I wish you a speedy and full recovery.

[HAWKERHUNTER]

Dont think you can use this as an excuse for not getting that 1/32 Lanc completed. We need you back at that work bench. Joking apart Barry, wishing you all the very best in your recovery and look forward to you getting back to full health.