discussion Oh no! Not Olive Drab! Sorted thanks.

[Gern]

I've checked Steve Zaloga's article and he definitely says XF 62 - and you're right, like a p*****k I got XF 72:fearful::flushed::confounded::upside:

But then, his colour patch shows XF 62 as a dark Green - and it's definitely dark green in the jar.

How about if I stick to WWII German armour? At least everyone agrees about Dunkelgelb being yellow!:smiling:

 

[Tim Marlow]

Yes, but not what colour yellow LOL.....

 

[Gern]

Yes, but not what colour yellow LOL.....

At least it removes 50% of the problem! Now I only have to choose between yellow and yellow instead of between green and brown!

I think I could be on to a winner here.

 

[Guest]

At least Marmite doesn't change it's colour !

Dave do you have to be so precise, after all colours fade and change over time, think Simon is right. I've used 4 BO Primer for top coat before now.

 

[Guest]

All seems a bit nit picky. This kind of thing puts me off.

Can I ask, if it’s widely accepted there there is such a broad variation in tone, whether it matters if you apply what you want?

 

[KarlW]

All seems a bit nit picky. This kind of thing puts me off.

Can I ask, if it’s widely accepted there there is such a broad variation in tone, whether it matters if you apply what you want?

There are 2 schools of modellers, those who must exactly match their colours to a paint chip salvaged from a scraping found on the actual battlefield, and those who go "That looks about right", neither is wrong.
(Of course there is also a broad spectrum inbetween and some outliers as well.)

 

[Guest]

I've checked Steve Zaloga's article and he definitely says XF 62

Like I said earlier in this thread, Tamiya changed the colour of that paint without changing the number at some point. It was spot-on when Zaloga wrote the article, but not anymore five or so years later.

you're right, like a p*****k I got XF 72:fearful::flushed::confounded::upside:

I figured, based on the name you mentioned

But then, his colour patch shows XF 62 as a dark Green

His article also mentions why you shouldn’t take printed matter as a guide

How about if I stick to WWII German armour? At least everyone agrees about Dunkelgelb being yellow!:smiling:

Yeah, that colour is not going to cause discussions at all either

 

[Gern]

At least Marmite doesn't change it's colour !

Dave do you have to be so precise, after all colours fade and change over time, think Simon is right. I've used 4 BO Primer for top coat before now.

I ain't paintin' anythin' with Marmite - although that would be a better use for it than actually puttin' the stuff in your mouth!

All this sounds like I'm being really picky. Honest, I'm not. I just want something reasonably close. Whatever colour I pick, there will be folks who will say it's too light/dark, or too green/brown, or too matt/shiny. I want to look at the finished article and be able to say 'That looks pretty good to me'.

 

[Gern]

All seems a bit nit picky. This kind of thing puts me off.

Can I ask, if it’s widely accepted there there is such a broad variation in tone, whether it matters if you apply what you want?

I just put this up on John's post Chris:

"All this sounds like I'm being really picky. Honest, I'm not. I just want something reasonably close. Whatever colour I pick, there will be folks who will say it's too light/dark, or too green/brown, or too matt/shiny. I want to look at the finished article and be able to say 'That looks pretty good to me'."

 

[Gern]

There are 2 schools of modellers, those who must exactly match their colours to a paint chip salvaged from a scraping found on the actual battlefield, and those who go "That looks about right", neither is wrong.
(Of course there is also a broad spectrum inbetween and some outliers as well.)

I'm definitely living in the "That looks about right" world Karl.

 

[Guest]

All this sounds like I'm being really picky. Honest, I'm not. I just want something reasonably close. Whatever colour I pick, there will be folks who will say it's too light/dark, or too green/brown, or too matt/shiny. I want to look at the finished article and be able to say 'That looks pretty good to me'.

That, I think, is the most important thing. But to do it, if you ask me, you need to understand what the real colour was in the first place. In this particular case, the pitfalls are to assume it’s a green (like many people, model paint manufacturers included, do), which obviously makes it look too green, and to use the USAAF/USAF olive drab, which is notably darker than US Army OD for ground vehicles. The latter is not too bad, until you take scale effect into account: a model appears darker than the real thing, and using USAAF dark OD will make that even worse, so you end up with a model looking almost black.

Once you realise these things, you can probably find something that looks right to you. My recommendation for a 1:35–1:72 model of a Second World War model, would be to pick an OD intended as an FS 595 match (that is, FS 34087), because that’s lighter than real wartime OD and so probably matches fairly well for scale effect.

 

[spanner570]

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy: Chris and Dave, I think I need to send you both membership forms for the 'Near Enough Club', Which, judging by the forms I've sent out, is expanding daily here on S.M..

Being a founder member of the N.E.C, I've find certain folks ignore my builds, realizing it's a waste of time pulling me up on paint colour, etc. and allow me to pootle along in my 'That looks about right' bubble.... :upside: I heartily recommend it.

There are too many variables regarding 'Correct' paint colour/ shade on a finished model. Even a batch of paint from the same factory might have had a slightly different shade. Even today, ceramic tiles, and wall paper have a shade number on the box / roll, and will be a slightly different shade from the previous batch.

Keep in mind sun bleaching etc., all play a part in colour, shade, tone differences.

It's your model and as long as you are happy with the end result that is all that matters.

 

[Gern]

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy: Chris and Dave, I think I need to send you both membership forms for the 'Near Enough Club', Which, judging by the forms I've sent out, is expanding daily here on S.M..

I think there's been a snafu in the paperwork somewhere at your end Ron. I filled in your form and sent it, along with my membership fee to you a few years ago. I thought it was a lifetime membership fee. Is my subscription due for renewal or summat?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Don’t know about you Dave, but I wouldn’t join a club that would have me as a member
Agree ref. Colour though.....so many things influence it’s appearance that I’m surprised people still make such a fuss about colour accuracy.....dimensional accuracy is important, proportion even more so, but not absolute colour. It can’t even be easily measured without specialist equipment , especially complex colours like brown....the only colour worse for matching is grey...

 

[Gern]

Don’t know about you Dave, but I wouldn’t join a club that would have me as a member

I wouldn't normally Tim, but Ron told me there was a special deal on - and I can't resist a bargain.

Agree ref. Colour though.....so many things influence it’s appearance that I’m surprised people still make such a fuss about colour accuracy.....dimensional accuracy is important, proportion even more so, but not absolute colour. It can’t even be easily measured without specialist equipment , especially complex colours like brown....the only colour worse for matching is grey...

I did a list a few years ago on here with all the variables I could think of that would affect both the colour of the paint, and our perception of the colour we see. I got to over twenty items, so I'm really not that fussed - but you got to try and start with something close, then let the experts argue over what you did wrong.

Jakko - I've checked and the VMA equivalent to FS 34087 is their 71.043 which they describe variously as Braunviolett RLM 81 and US Olive drab. It looks more brown than green (yeah - on my 'puter screen) so I'll add some to my next order with John.

Gary (topgazza) - You suggested 71.247 Light Olive which also seems to be a brownish colour so I'll try that too.

KarlW - I got some of the VMC 70887. I'm not sure it's an updated version of the 71043. It's Model Colour, not Model Air and looks decidedly green rather than brown.

And all this for a model which may not get built!

 

[spanner570]

I think there's been a snafu in the paperwork somewhere at your end Ron. I filled in your form and sent it, along with my membership fee to you a few years ago. I thought it was a lifetime membership fee. Is my subscription due for renewal or summat?

Sorry Dave. I've had a word with my secret harry, and she produced your form, but no fee. She has confessed to sending it to her fifth cousin in Fiji, who is making a replica of the Kon- Tiki, and needed more funds to complete the job.....

Tim, just to confirm, your Lifetime Membership is acknowledged with this post.

Thor Heyerdahl jnr.

P.S. Dave, just read your last post. Keep in mind, there is no such thing/ being as an expert!

 

[Gern]

Sorry Dave. I've had a word with my secret harry, and she produced your form, but no fee. She has confessed to sending it to her fifth cousin in Fiji, who is making a replica of the Kon- Tiki, and needed more funds to complete the job.....

Tim, just to confirm, your Lifetime Membership is acknowledged with this post.

Thor Heyerdahl jnr.

Well that explains it. No problem as the money has gone to such a worthy cause, and I'm glad to hear there's no problem with my membership of your fine club.

 

[Gern]

P.S. Dave, just read your last post. Keep in mind, there is no such thing/ being as an expert!

Sure there is if you take the literal meaning of the word:

Ex = has been

spurt = drip under pressure

 

[KarlW]

KarlW - I got some of the VMC 70887. I'm not sure it's an updated version of the 71043. It's Model Colour, not Model Air and looks decidedly green rather than brown.

I meant a later as in the way OD changed over time.

 

[Gern]

I meant a later as in the way OD changed over time.

Aahh! I thought you meant Vallejo had changed and updated their colour. With you now.