discussion Vallejo Surface Primer for airbrush questions

[David Lovell]

Hi Jakko bit late on this but I've never liked the V word most of their stuff should be shown the bin ,also dont belive in most of the alchemy theories above ,if its for wargame stuff I'd look to aerosol primers like expo or even halfords, what about army painter or games workshop not that I've used them but aren't they specifically for wargames stuff hope your friend gets sorted Dave

 

[Tim Marlow]

I’ve used army painter, and it ain’t that great David. Lacquer primer is far superior.

 

[David Lovell]

I’ve used army painter, and it ain’t that great David. Lacquer primer is far superior.

I've never used it Tim so wouldn't know i was just trying to suggest a simple answer to the fellows problem ,whilst in the beginning when airbrushing held a certain amount of trepidation I primed all my builds with humbrol rattle can primer then used expo rattle can primer(comes in three shades) all with zero problems its like shake and vac but shake and paint ,the only rattle can primer I had a problem with was tamiya it dried rock hard and super smooth , paint adhesion was very poor.
I do wonder if some of these problems are comming from the fact that most primers now are super smooth self leveling, the paints used acrylic or lacquer have such super smooth pigments that there's hardly any form of adhesion between the two.
Me my go to primer is mig one shot thinned with mr color aqueous thinner fifty fifty or even sixty thinner forty primer this ratio is worked by drops say five drops of primer from the bottle five thinner from a pipette straight into the airbrush cup mixed with a brush ,a couple of passes over some printer paper (I try and use a good quality one I pretend only the best for the daughters home work)just to check flow and air pressure and off you jolly well go ,it was pointed out to me they say dont thin it but I read the bottle it only says no need to thin nothing about dont ,lifes to short .
I did hear of another way (please people this is tounge in cheek)store your primer under a large cabbage leaf , on the third Thursday of the month look for a bat to pass before a full moon it must be past midnight with absolutely no dew on the ground ,immediately attempt to prime your model using either leprechaun spit or wiches milk to thin the paint this procedure should be carried out in the hen coop by candle light ive never tried it my self but have been assured it pretty much fool proof.
Stay safe all and good luck with your problem. Dave.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Dave
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately due to post Brexit import confusion supplies of witches milk and leprechaun spit are currently intermittent at best so I’ll have to stick to what I know.....
I think the take home message is that primer is like paint....one mans dung is another mans liquid gold so try several until you find one that works for you!

 

[David Lovell]

Hi Dave
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately due to post Brexit import confusion supplies of witches milk and leprechaun spit are currently intermittent at best so I’ll have to stick to what I know.....
I think the take home message is that primer is like paint....one mans dung is another mans liquid gold so try several until you find one that works for you!

Couldn't agree more Tim ive got quite gung ho with it all now grab the bull by the horns and dive in surely we've all got a crash test dummie in the cupboard, its so easy and stress free to try out your ideas on something that just doesn't matter im sure like you say they all work but saying that I hate marmite. Dave

 

[Guest]

if its for wargame stuff I'd look to aerosol primers

His principal reason for buying an airbrush was to be cheaper off in the long run than using aerosol cans of primer

what about army painter or games workshop not that I've used them but aren't they specifically for wargames stuff

I like GW primer myself (even if their white … isn’t) but Army Painter’s is crap. I had bought one aerosol of it, mainly because I wanted to paint a fair number of wargames vehicles of a British Western Desert Force in a colour approximating Light Stone and they had a primer in pretty much that colour. The can worked once, but next time, it just sputtered a bit and hardly any paint came out, let alone actually spray. This was a few years ago; last month, when my friend was talking about his wanting to buy an airbrush, he mentioned exactly the same problem with Army Painter aerosol primers as one of his reasons. Army Painter brush paint is generally fine, but I won’t be buying their aerosols anymore, and I suspect, neither will he

 

[Tim Marlow]

His principal reason for buying an airbrush was to be cheaper off in the long run than using aerosol cans of primer :smiling3:

This seems a bit of a false premise Jakko. An airbrush and compressor has an upfront cost that will buy quite a few cans of primer. Further, the primer he shoots from the airbrush isn’t actually much cheaper than spray cans.....and finally each can will probably do a couple of hundred figures if he sets himself up properly and primes in large batches. It will take a lifetime to get the cost equation to tilt in his favour :smiling2:
The best reason I can see for using an airbrush over spray cans on gaming figures is that it is far easier to put down an thin even coat. It is also extremely versatile, so can be used for other jobs from priming and painting scenery to painting camp on vehicles and base coating figures. With the right nozzle you can even use it to spray dilute PVA over trees and bushes to fix the foliage.
In my earlier pre-airbrush days I used to exclusively use car factor body repair primer. It was far cheaper than hobby based stuff and much more reliable. I still have some on the shelf and am confident it would work as required if I needed it to. It was fantastic on etched metal kits because it is formulated to go on sheet metal and stay there!

 

[Guest]

Paint paint confusing pots of glorious paint
Nothing quite like it for confusing a saint

So follow me follow down to the leprechaun
who under a cabbage leaf sleeps in the storm.

Hey ho you have had it old Vallejo
You are , oh so sorry, marmolejo !!!

So what shall I do, prime for a dime, I am getting so stressed
Paint paint, so confusing, I think I will have to use Stynylrez

Poet I am not Laurie

 

[Guest]

This seems a bit of a false premise Jakko.

TBH, that was largely my opinion too, however, his idea was that he wants to buy a compressor anyway to power pneumatic tools, so why not also invest in an airbrush for his other hobby (wargaming)? Then, before he bought any of the above, he came across one of these exceedingly cheap Chinese all-in-one sets (IIRC, under €30 for airbrush, two spare needles, tools, and a compressor …) and decided he might as well buy that to see how it would work out.

In my earlier pre-airbrush days I used to exclusively use car factor body repair primer. It was far cheaper than hobby based stuff and much more reliable.

I used to use that as well, but about ten years ago, the only brand that seems to be easily available around here changed its formula. The aerosol cans went from matt white paint that covered perfectly in one coat, to apparently being filled with skimmed milk This turned me to the more expensive GW cans instead, and after the local game shop closed, to Vallejo.

 

[RazgrizBSG27]

I will say, I havent primed any of my gaming minis with airbrush, theose were all rattle can testors black enamel primed and then hand painted. But since Ive largely gone to 1/72 aircraft modelling I've exclusively used an Iwata Neo cheap airbrusb and a harbor freight compressor with Vallejo products and I've never had a durability issue with my primer, I shoot the Vallejo air Black primer neat at like 10-15psi depending on how its coming out, then I shoot white/grey for mottle coat like 30 minutes later, then like 15 minutes after that I start my thinned layers of the main coat to build up over the mottling. Granted I dont handle my planes often like you would gaming models, but I've only had a patch of paint and primer come up like once, on my first Mig29 I was trying to do semi-soft edge camo using bluetac, and left it on too long so it pulled up some of my paint, but tamiya masking tape has never done it, etc.

I dont know if I just have lower standards than normal or what, but I see people have trouble with Vallejo a lot, and my only real complaint is build up on the needle, which is fixed handily by a few drops of flow improver.

 

[Airborne01]

The opposite to most. I could not get on with stynylrez so bought some black vallejo primer to try.
After a few experiments I settled on thinning it 50/50 with vallejo thinners.
I build it up in very thin coats that are pretty much dry before I go over again.
Also, and as mentioned, I wipe my models down with meths prior to priming.

Worth mentioning it does not adhere to PE at all and will come off if nudged, as others have suggested.

I tend to agree with this - however I find very few primers are satisfactory with PE unless the item receives a good degreasing and scuffing with a fine abrasive. I actually detest what appears to be stainless steel PE; I haven't found a chemical that blackens it - am I not chemist enough for this hobby?

 

[Isitme]

Still have a large bottle of dark green, some brown, not impressed by any means hence still have it, think it's time to bin it. Now use one made by Badger and the new AK 3 gen .

John, mix it together and then use it as a primer for the groundwork before adding the groundwork, thats what I did with all mine.

 

[yak face]

Jakko , perhaps an aerosol acrylic car spray primer would do the job better , shame you dont have Halfords in Holland , their acrylic primer is fantastic .

 

[Guest]

I don’t go up to Holland much, but here in Zeeland we don’t have Halfords anymore, no :tongue-out: One of the reasons my friend had for wanting to buy an airbrush was to not have to use aerosol cans to prime his figures, though. I’m happy with those myself for this kind of purpose, but as I said above, the only easily available brand of aerosol car primer around here (as far as I can tell) changed from very good to crap ages ago.