discussion My board wargame collection.....plus a sports one.....

[adt70hk]

Good afternoon all

So as some of you know I did a bit of wargaming in my youf - a bit 1/72 & 1/300 WW2, plus Warhammer Fantasy in quite a big way (none of the 40K stuff, as it didn't exist).

However, the one thing I really got into was board wargaming - usually the hex and counter variety - most of which were published by a US company called Avalon Hill.

In most cases, if not all, the Avalon Hill games also contain designer notes and some in-depth historical background info. Most are from their 'Bookcase Game' range, the idea being the boxes were small enough to fit on a bookcase and so take up less room than a lot of game boxes you see.

My mum is the process of downsizing and so all of my games have come down from her loft after 25+ years and are now back with me. I've thrown some of the cheap and nasty non-Avalon Hill games away though, Junior has shown a bit of interest and so we're playing one of the one-player games now.

I thought I'd share them along with a bit of background info in case you're interested.

All the best.

Andrew

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Panzer Blitz (PB), Panzer Leader (PL), Arab-Israeli Wars (AIW)

• PB started the series and is set on the Eastern front. Published c.1970.
• PL is NWE 44-45 (German, US & British/Commonwealth), with the rules increasing in complexity.
• AIW is the pinnacle of the series and covers all the major Arab-Israeli Conflicts (56, 67 & 73), meaning it covers everything from old WW2 surplus stock to the latest US tanks of the time. The rules are very complicated in comparison to PB and includes AT missiles, helicopters and jet aircraft. This is the game that got me started on board games, after a friend up the road got it and played it with me. The game was published in 1977 but intriguingly it had one 'what if' scenario set in the future......that scenario was a hypothetical Israeli invasion of Lebanon!!
• All games are platoon/battery/troop level games, where a hex nominally represents 250m of terrain. All use four generic geomorphic boards - which can be linked up with each other in myriad different ways

Below are a couple of boards from PL & AIW, as well as some AIW counters, in case you're not familiar with the concept.

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Rise and fall of the Third Reich & The Russian Campaign
These aren't part of a 'series' and used fixed maps of actual locations.

Third Reich, as it's name is recreation of the conflict affecting all of Europe, including well past Moscow, as well as the Middle East and the very top of North Africa. It's very much at a strategic level, covering air, sea and land - with unit's perhaps roughly equivalent to entire Army Groups. Neutral countries and Axis Allies are all catered for. Reinforcements are often determined by your countries production, which can be affected by things such as conquered countries and the effect of the U-boat wolf packs. It also has a political angle that, for example, can see Spain or Turkey join the war and France's north African colonies become Free French, rather than Vichy.

The Russian Campaign, I didn't play much but if I recall is a divisional level game - obviously set on the Eastern Front.

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Below is the Third Reich map, along with the German, British and French counters.

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Squad Leader
As it's name suggests was a small unit game - infantry squads, individual NCOs and officers, individual weapons and vehicles. It used used geomorphic boards upon which a hex nominally represents 40m. It was set on the Eastern and NWE 44-45 (US only). There were three expansions covering 1939-41 with full for UK and France at that time, as well as expanding the US, German and Soviet Orbats.


Advanced Squad Leader
As you may guess, the principle is the same as Squad Leader but completely rewritten, albeit it did reuse the boards from Squad Leader in some scenarios. You had to buy the rules on their own, which was unusual for Avalon Hill (£50+ at the time). You then either bough a nice little starter module (US Paras vs Germans in Normandy) or the Eastern Front set - full Russian and German Orbat, which is how I started. There are around around 15 expansions games covering various parts of WW2, of which I have four. To say the rules are complicated is an understatement and the come in a A4 binder so you could update them as necessary......

Below are some boards, along with some counters. Plus a box that contains nothing but counters.....plus the mammoth rule set

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One-player
Avalon Hill published some one player games of which I got three. Junior and I are currently playing the B17 one, as it's pretty simply by Avalon Hill standards..

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Napoleonic games (non-Avalon Hill)
The Napoleonic era was also a big passion and so I have a couple of games covering that. One for the Waterloo campaign and one for Napoleon's 1809 campaign on the Danube - not a small map at 2m long......

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Statis Pro (American Football)
Not everything I got was war related. This one was their NFL American Football game. After each season they released the squads for that year and so I had 1986 - 1989 player rosters. As you can see I took it quite seriously and I'd keep a coloured coded play-by-play record for each game, so I could work out the stats at the end of the game.

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[Si Benson]

I must admit to be interested in these war games as my older brothers played them when I was a kid.
I’d watch but was not allowed to play and stuck with climbing trees, making dens and generally annoying the neighbours :smiling5:

Bet having them out again brought back lots of memories for you and playing them with Junior will be a moment for you both to remember :smiling4:

 

[adt70hk]

I must admit to be interested in these war games as my older brothers played them when I was a kid.
I’d watch but was not allowed to play and stuck with climbing trees, making dens and generally annoying the neighbours :smiling5:

Bet having them out again brought back lots of memories for you and playing them with Junior will be a moment for you both to remember :smiling4:

It has been good fun Si and has brought back a lot of good memories!

ATB

Andrew

 

[Lee Drennen]

Interesting stuff you have there Andrew

 

[adt70hk]

Interesting stuff you have there Andrew

Thanks Lee it certainly used to keep me busy, although the ASL rules are very complicated.

All the best.

Andrew

 

[Jim R]

Hi Andrew
Very interesting. Must have been state of the art back in the day, collectors stuff now I suppose.
Jim

 

[Tim Marlow]

Once you’d cracked one AH game the others used similar mechanisms. I had Sinai (still got it somewhere) and a WW2 air combat game that was quite good. Nice series of games you have there, from a period when Wargame rs took themselves far too seriously :smiling2: They might be collectible now.
ASL is still played I think. I have the rule set somewhere as my gaming mate tried to get me into it.....I think you need a PhD in game theory though....

 

[dave]

Played a few of those in my time, Panzer Leader, squad leader and statis pro American football certainly come to mind, also Trireme was fun,
still got Aces High by Simulation Games, WWI aerial combat and Kingmaker by Gibson Games, which is more mainstream War of the Roses.

 

[Bobby Conkers]

Panzer Leader! I have mever been beaten at that, but only because my housemate insisted on playing the Germans, and it's ridiculously unbalanced toward the Allied side. I just parked my artillery on all the hills during setup, and he couldn't take advantage of his armour speed.

Must be 25 years since I played that.

 

[adt70hk]

Hi Andrew
Very interesting. Must have been state of the art back in the day, collectors stuff now I suppose.
Jim

Hi Jim

It was very popular and state of the art indeed. It also harks back to a time before video/computer games took over. There was a tiny shop near where I lived that stocked a range of Warhammer, Avalon Hill and other wargaming kit, so I had it on my doorstep. As for collectors stuff, it seems to be judging by some of the prices on the web - assuming of course it actually sells at those price!

Once you’d cracked one AH game the others used similar mechanisms. I had Sinai (still got it somewhere) and a WW2 air combat game that was quite good. Nice series of games you have there, from a period when Wargame rs took themselves far too seriously :smiling2: They might be collectible now.
ASL is still played I think. I have the rule set somewhere as my gaming mate tried to get me into it.....I think you need a PhD in game theory though....

Thanks Tim. As you say similar mechanisms across a number of the games and you're right - ASL and gaming PhD is a good way of putting it. It is insanely complicated.

As for taking themselves far too seriously, I'll leave you with the following quote from designer of B17 Queen of the Skies - "My own bias is towards realism and accuracy, and I have always been dismayed when a designer says he sacrificed realism for playability"......that said this particular game is very playable and pretty simple compared to most of their offerings. :surprised:

Played a few of those in my time, Panzer Leader, squad leader and statis pro American football certainly come to mind, also Trireme was fun,
still got Aces High by Simulation Games, WWI aerial combat and Kingmaker by Gibson Games, which is more mainstream War of the Roses.

Dave, thanks for stopping by. It's funny you mention Kingmaker as thought about it the other day as I used to have a copy but no idea where it's gone.......:disappointed2:

Panzer Leader! I have mever been beaten at that, but only because my housemate insisted on playing the Germans, and it's ridiculously unbalanced toward the Allied side. I just parked my artillery on all the hills during setup, and he couldn't take advantage of his armour speed.

Must be 25 years since I played that.

Andy, remind me never to play you at it!! :smiling5: As you sat some of those scenarios are very one sided and clearly your housemate was trying to change the course of history. My mates and I were very much the same with Third Reich. We always wanted to be the Germans, as their forces were so much superior in the early stages of the war!!


Gents - thanks for joining me on my trip down memory lane. It has been fun,

All the best.

Andrew

 

[boatman]

HI Andrew yes it was far to complicated. for me i had a job at playing chess lol
chris

 

[Tim Marlow]

Enjoyed this as well Andrew. It was the proliferation of modern games that are more “game” than “War” that has drawn me back to the field.
Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but junior might enjoy “What a tanker” by “Two fat lardies”. I’ve played it at a gaming show a couple of times, and it’s a great fun game using miniature tanks. Like all Lardies games it is actually quite realistic, rewarding proper tactics and simulating friction well. The mechanism is simple though, and the game play fast and exciting.

 

[adt70hk]

Enjoyed this as well Andrew. It was the proliferation of modern games that are more “game” than “War” that has drawn me back to the field.
Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but junior might enjoy “What a tanker” by “Two fat lardies”. I’ve played it at a gaming show a couple of times, and it’s a great fun game using miniature tanks. Like all Lardies games it is actually quite realistic, rewarding proper tactics and simulating friction well. The mechanism is simple though, and the game play fast and exciting.

Tim

Thanks for the tip. I'll have a look at it. We currently use a system called Battlegroup, which is published in conjunction with the Plastic Soldier Company. I strip out some of the super-detailed mechanics for our small battles to keep it quick. PSC even put me in contact with the author when had some questions about it.

Thanks again for the tip.

Andrew

 

[Tim Marlow]

Others you might not have come across are wings of glory (Air warfare in the age of Biggles) and Tripods and Triplanes (A similar theme along the lines of War of the worlds). Both great fun, card driven, and not complicated.

 

[PaulinKendal]

Ah, I had Gettysburg by Avalon Hill - way too complicated (I never played it) and all those cardboard counters!

Much later I got Memoire 44, which is dead easy (and has proper little playing pieces!) and I've just got back into tabletop wargaming with A Song of Ice and Fire, by C'MON Games.

 

[Peter Gillson]

Ah, the memories come flooding back. My brother had a collection of these (probably still has them). Many hours of enjoyment was spent with these games.

Peter

 

[adt70hk]

Ah, I had Gettysburg by Avalon Hill - way too complicated (I never played it) and all those cardboard counters!

Much later I got Memoire 44, which is dead easy (and has proper little playing pieces!) and I've just got back into tabletop wargaming with A Song of Ice and Fire, by C'MON Games.

Paul - not heard of Memoire 44, so had a quick look; looks Interesting. Never had a go at Gettysburg. At the time I was interested in either WW2 or Napoleonic.

Ah, the memories come flooding back. My brother had a collection of these (probably still has them). Many hours of enjoyment was spent with these games.

Peter

Peter - Many, many hours indeed - and that was just on one game of Third Reich!! :smiling5: But they were good.


Thanks to both of you for stopping by.

ATB.

Andrew

 

[Guest]

Must have lead a sheltered life as I've never heard of any of them. Only knew about Warhammer due to Tim and going to the Peterborough Model show.
Looks a good game Andrew, complicated by the sounds of it, but I love the Nerd side keeping all those stats, that would have been me alright.:nerd:

 

[adt70hk]

T

Must have lead a sheltered life as I've never heard of any of them. Only knew about Warhammer due to Tim and going to the Peterborough Model show.
Looks a good game Andrew, complicated by the sounds of it, but I love the Nerd side keeping all those stats, that would have been me alright.:nerd:

Good afternoon John

Hope all is well with you and yours.

I don't think they were particularly well known unless you were really into wargaming. There used to be a very small wargaming shop in Dunstable where I used to live that did all kinds of genres; fantasy (Warhammer but GW didn't have their own shops at the time), 1/300, board games etc. and so I got exposed to all kinds of game formats. Needless to say, whenever we were in the town centre, I would have to drop in!!

And some of them are very complicated John......Advanced Squad Leader in particular.....any game that has an A4 box-file folder for the rules has complexity written all over it. Interestingly they were apparently designed on the same lines as the US Army's manual, so you would swap rule pages out as they changed, without having to buy a new rule set.

As for being a "Nerd" - guilty as charged.......you should see the spreadsheets I have set up for paint lists and colour options.....and list of useful websites.....and list of kits i'd like........and.......you get the picture..........

....and I don't even get the week of when I'm working, as I'm the financial crime manager for an automotive financial services firm and so have to have a very good understanding of the UK's anti money laundering and counter terrorist financing laws, regulations and regulatory guidance.......

....to be honest though I suspect it's a lifelong 'nerdhood' for me.....there was one job I had where, because of my in-depth understanding of the companies complicated systems, I was officially known as the 'Anorak Man'; a badge I wore with honour!! :smiling::smiling5:

Thanks for dropping in.

ATB.

Andrew

 

[Guest]

Andrew. Pity I missed those games then.
We are so alike in that respect. I keep lists of session players on albums, readings daily of the solar panels. Lists of models , paints etc.
My greatest achievement was being told by a tax inspector who came to check my accounts that I had missed my vocation ! I had offered her the chance to see my consumables list on 45 subdivisions.

Strangely she declined !:smiling3::smiling3::smiling3: