discussion Rust

[CarolsHusband]

I've been thinking about rust, specifically on WW2 vehicles that are in operation and therefore are at most about 6 years old.
I am an admirer of the work of Shigeyuki Mizuno and would love to be able to replicate decay in the way he does.
My question is, how rusty do you think undamaged vehicles (especially armour) would actually get ? Obviously if there had been a fire and all the paint burned away, the metal would be exposed and open to rusting. But would knocks and scrapes result in peeling paint and spreading rust ?
I have had experience working on WW2 vehicles (mostly Jeeps, but other stuff too) and have always been amazed at how rust-free they are after all this time. You cant leave a series one Land Rover outside for very long before its chassis vanishes....
I was lucky enough to be involved in the 40th anniversary of operation Market Garden and visited the open air museum at Overloon. There was all sorts of kit there, exposed to the elements and quite neglected but rust really wasn't rampant. I understand it's a bit more organised these days.
I'm guessing that steel at the time was of a purer or at least different specification.

All thoughts and knowledge gratefully received.

Thanks, Dan.

 

[GerryW]

Some vehicles could have been older, as they may have seen action in Spain?
By and large, I would agree that most would have been new or nearly so, with only 'wear' on areas of high use (steps etc.), but if it's due to wear, then rust wouldn't have formed (often wouldn't have had the chance of the grease being rubbed off)

 

[Tim Marlow]

I think rust is easily overdone. You might get some surface rust, and perhaps some deep seated stuff on exhasts and the like, but most of the metal simply wouldn’t be in the field long enough to get the very decrepit appearance you can see on models. The other thing is the type of steel in use. Mild steel will rust fairly readily where it is exposed to the elements, but rolled armour plate, or tracks, for example, are usually made from much better quality material. How long would tracks last if they rusted readily when wet.....they live in mud! They were hardened steel, not mild, so were much more resistant.

 

[minitnkr]

Metalurgy was a factor as Tim states. Actually rust wasn't much of a thing as vehicles are better targets than individuals and their attrition was significant. Consider Russian parameters for T-34 production assumed a life of 30 days. US paint specifications were significant & rigidly enforced. I can only imagine what German specs may have been like. PaulE

 

[Guest]

I agree that rust is usually overdone on model vehicles. On exhaust pipes, sure. On armour plate? Hardly likely. Oh, wait, I have good photos at hand that show just how much a 1940s tank will rust if left outdoors for a few years a few minutes’ walk from the sea shore.

In mid-1945 when this photo was taken, this Sherman Crab had been standing in the street for over six months:

View attachment 419561

I don’t think there’s all that much rust on it. Stains and things, yes. But even the sheet metal on it is still perfectly in order.

Two years later, the same tank, though it has been moved backwards by about ten metres:

View attachment 419563

The same tank again in 1958, now literally (and I mean literally) a stone’s throw from the sea, where it had been since later on the same day the previous photo was taken eleven years earlier:

View attachment 419560

(The missing mine-clearing gear is due to a scrap metal merchant’s blowtorch.)

Here’s another Crab that had been standing in the sea, with the high tide washing over it twice per day, for approximately a year when this photo was taken:

View attachment 419559

 

[rtfoe]

You're not the only one that has an issue with rust Dan, but inevitably someone will come up with an image showing just that. I guess rust appearing on thinner metal fittings probably happen and could streak down the more sturdy areas. These would be stains rather than actual rusting.
Sometimes the rusting effects done are so over the top that the crew probably need tetanus shots. :smiling2:

But as for the Land Rover Defender Series, rust would be difficult to achieve as the body was made from aluminum. These old fellas haven't vanished from the second most saturated place of Land Rovers other than the UK that's Cameron Highlands...battered and worn down but not rusted.

Here are some veterans I shot some years back all up and running. The local farmers and tea growers just love them.

View attachment 419547View attachment 419548View attachment 419549View attachment 419550View attachment 419551View attachment 419552View attachment 419553View attachment 419554View attachment 419555View attachment 419556View attachment 419557View attachment 419558

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Airborne01]

I think, from observation, light rust forms on items such as stowed tools that aren't frequently used or on things like gutters. I really disagree with this current trend for mobile scrap heaps! (Dare I whisper the heresy - I also don't really like some of the pre and post shading methods used today, it reminds me of the time when every vehicle had HB pencil liberally applied to every angle). Still, each to their own!

 

[minitnkr]

Must be a thing w/Defender owners in that they park navigate by sound & feel rather than by sight.

 

[AlanG]

I admit i over-did my STuG that i build for Bob's GB but that was my first ever tank and i was really practicing things on it. Well out of my comfort zone. But my next tanks will be less worn. Aircraft wise though. I mostly do German aircraft and towards the end of the war, quite a few were showing lots of wear. Maybe not rust though as they were aluminium. So mostly paint loss

 

[CarolsHusband]

Thank you everyone, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Richard, I did really mean the chassis and you guys must have special dry rain over there as Landys rust like mad here, except for the parts covered in oil leaks, obviously. Joking aside, my point was that the Jeeps I've worked on really had minimal rust, even the neglected ones.

So yes, I'll not be going mad at it without a bloody good excuse !

I can't help but admire this though....

View attachment 419571

 

[Tim Marlow]

Yep, it’s photogenic, great fun to paint, and visually arresting, but it ain’t right LOL. Mind you, the modelling is excellent.....and just for once the Russian anti tank chipping squads had been kept at bay.....

 

[CarolsHusband]

Yep, it’s photogenic, great fun to paint, and visually arresting, but it ain’t right LOL. Mind you, the modelling is excellent.....and just for once the Russian anti tank chipping squads had been kept at bay.....

Yeah, I was going to try a bit of paint chipping on a restoration of an unfinished Bergpanther I'm about to do.
I am braced for a possible backlash..

 

[Tim Marlow]

No probs with a bit of chipping, but like all things, less is more.....it’s there to add interest, not be the dominating image.

 

[CarolsHusband]

So not like this then ?

View attachment 419572

 

[Airborne01]

Good modelling ... ! What colour did you use as the base?

 

[PaulTRose]

ive always prefered the 'less is more' approach

weathering, staining, etc fair enough but not turned into a rusty hulk

 

[PaulTRose]

do they come with a salt and vinegar wash?

 

[Airborne01]

I particularly like the subtle toning on the ends!

 

[CarolsHusband]

Good modelling ... ! What colour did you use as the base?

Dunkelkartoffel von Konig Edward

 

[Airborne01]

Dunkelkartoffel

I thought that might be the case - do I detect a hint of leichte senf mit mayo?