discussion Unconverting a Sherman V from the Rye Field Models Sherman VC

[Guest]

Unlike many other versions of the Sherman, 1:35 scale models of the Sherman Mk. V (the British designation for the Medium Tank M4A4) are thin on the ground — unless you want a VC with 17-pounder gun, then you have a ton of choices, but they generally don’t contain the bits needed to make a regular Mk. V, like the 75 mm gun barrel, its shield, and a turret without a loader’s hatch. Sure, there are a few Dragon kits but they’re not exactly great in terms of fit or accuracy, and also the far superior Asuka kit — but Asuka appear to produce one run of each Sherman kit and then move on to the next variant, so that kit is almost impossible to find anymore.

Now that my one-off M3 conversion is ready for paint, I intend start on my next build soon: a Sherman V by undoing the conversions to a Sherman VC. And to make it more interesting, I’ll be building a model of a real tank:

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Not a very clear photo, I admit, but I have more than that to go on Here is the same tank after the war:

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Of course, I have still more photos, but I hope these will do to illustrate the tank,

“But wait,” you say, “didn’t you already build a model like that?” And you would be right — I began that as wanting to build this particular tank, but changed it to the other one part of the way through. Now I do want to build this particular tank, and as it appears in the first photo: the way it came ashore on 1 November 1944, with full wading gear, rather than as a derelict wreck a few years later. This will provide a nice contrast and serve as an almost before-and-after. I also intend to show how to more generically unconvert a Sherman VC into a plain V, so that this thread may be useful to people who don’t have a great interest in the Walcheren campaign too

 

[Guest]

So what do I need for this? Like I said, Sherman V kits are thin on the ground, but VC kits are easier to get. I decided to buy the Rye Field Models kit, because I read it’s even better than the Asuka one — which is already a very good kit, well worth buying — and because I wanted to see how it actually compares to the Asuka Shermans. I didn’t even consider the various Dragon kits: they cost about the same but the quality and accuracy just aren’t there.

In addition, I got a set of Resicast deep-wading gear — the full set this time, not just the lower part like last time — and AFV Club T48 tracks, because the kit comes with the almost exclusively British T62 type.

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So what do you get for all that cash? The RFM kit seems to be nicely moulded in light grey plastic, most sprues packaged individually in resealable plastic bags. I’m not going to show the instructions, those are available on Scalemates, but here is everything else:

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I didn’t show all the track sprues. The grey ones are RFM, and you get four in the kit; the brown ones are AFV Club, and you get six. My previous experience with them is that that wasn’t enough for a Sherman V, but I still have links from a previous set left, so I should be OK now.

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The kit comes with the decal sheet on the left, which I won’t be using. The one on the right is from Black Lion Decals, set 35036, British landings in Westkapelle, november 1944, part 1. I helped them make this set, so the one shown in the picture is a complimentary copy I got

I also need a few spares from Asuka Shermans:

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This because the RFM kit doesn’t include the appliqué armour plates on the hull sides, despite a lot of VCs having those, nor the smoke grenade launchers on the right side of the turret and the improved commander’s sighting device. I’ll probably need to find a few more parts that I haven’t realised yet.

And here is what’s in the Resicast set:

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As can be expected, these are cleanly cast. Though the set isn’t designed for this particular kit, I have no doubt I can make it fit easily enough.

 

[Guest]

I’ve begun construction with the lower hull, per the instructions:

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This is not a one-piece moulding but built up from six pieces, not counting the transmission housing that adds three more for its basic structure. Fit is quite good, though I needed some filler on the transmission cover to blend the final drive housings into the main part:

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On the real tank these were single castings, the final drive housing with the outer part of the transmission cover, but there is a noticeable gap when the parts are put together in the kit. Not a big deal, as Asuka’s have the same problem and it’s easily fixed with a little filler and a wash of thin cement to blend it in.

I then moved on to the drive sprockets and idler wheels. The kit provides all three common types of sprocket:

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However, the layout on the sprue is odd: top left goes with bottom left, but top middle goes with lower right, and top right with lower middle. You need to pay attention here to make sure you don’t mix them up. (It was, of course, possible to mix them on a real tank, but because these all wore simultaneously, they would generally all be swapped at once and therefore match.)

The type I used is the top middle/lower right one, with the star-shaped centres but not the recessed bits radiating out from the points. I looked carefully at all the photos and film I have of Cock o’the North and decided this is probably the style of sprocket it had — but I can’t be sure, because I don’t know any photos that show it clearly.

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This is the sprockets and idlers. The sprockets are interesting in that the hub is separate, where most manufacturers mould it integrally with the sprocket wheel itself. This is good for dioramas, I suppose, as it allows the model to be easily shown with the sprocket removed but the hub still on the tank, as it would normally be.

The idler wheels have the lip around the inside of the rim, that Asuka’s Shermans lack. Interestingly, RFM provides it in plastic by giving you two halves for the rim, which leaves a seam around the middle. All other kits I’ve seen that do provide this lip, do it with an etched brass ring that goes onto a plastic idler. I haven’t removed the seam yet because the glue was still drying as I took this photo, but it definitely needs to go because the real wheel had no seam there,

 

[Guest]

After getting some way into this build, my current impression is that RFM Shermans are slightly better detailed than Asuka’s, but Asuka’s are better engineered. This is a good example:

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Those axles should not have hollows in the ends. If you cut them off, they’re the right length, so these hollows are probably caused by plastic seeping into the channel for the ejector pins that push against the ends of the axles to get them from the mould. Fit overall isn’t as fine as Asuka’s Shermans, but don’t get me wrong, it’s certainly not bad — just not as good as you kind of expect from looking at the sprues.

Another oddity is that the kit provides two sets of parts for the suspension arms, one like above and one that’s a mirror image. However, I can’t see anything different between the two once they’re assembled. My theory is that RFM simply copied the assembly method of other kits (like Asuka’s) without realising why they are like that. I think this because on the real tank, the arm that faces the hull has a crenellated nut while the outer arm has a bolt head, which is what Asuka’s parts are like, but RFM gives you a bolt head on both sides. Not that this is a big issue, because who’s going to see that nut on the inside of the inner arm, but if they’re going to omit that nut, why not just give twelve identical arms instead of two sets of six?

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On the hull front, I removed the bulge for the bow machine gun, because the deep-wading set includes a covered bow gun, but it’s flat on the back face so the bulge needs to be cut off to accommodate it:

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The kit also has a separate turret ring complete with rack, which will be entirely out of sight on the finished model.

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It gives me the impression a Sherman V with interior may be in the works, except that the rest of the kit looks like that won’t be …

 

[Mini Me]

Nice progress on this so far Jakko, and it sounds like you have done your homework on "cock o the north".
Rick H.

 

[David Lovell]

Interesting stuff I like it comparing kit with actual, can I bug you with a stupid question Jakko I'm building a little M3A1(vehicles under construction) its trotting along nicely as you know never one for rivet and dimensionality accuracy if it looks right good enough but on the paint job thoes rear return roller sprocket things rubber or metal? Keep this one comming only working in 72nd with the occasional dip in to 35ers im amazed at how moulding has come on thoes raised markings on the hull used to be available as raised decals? And the current trend of ours is better than yours we've got 8 separate pieces to each link(not quite but you know what I mean) its all good stuff ,I see some of the upcoming dragon stuff in 72nd is boasting 3d printed parts ,cheaper to produce or a good excuse to drag more from our wallets. Dave

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
I enjoy your well researched, meticulous builds and this looks interesting. Building a specific vehicle requires more attention to detail but right up your street.
Jim

 

[Guest]

Nice progress on this so far Jakko, and it sounds like you have done your homework on "cock o the north".

Thanks, and yes, I’ve been looking closely at all the photos and video I have of this tank. Unfortunately it’s not been photographed as well as I would have liked … but hey, that’s par for the course when you’re trying to build a model of a specific vehicle, isn’t it?

thoes raised markings on the hull used to be available as raised decals?

Yes, from Archer Fine Transfers, who call them “Surface Details” decals. They do look good once painted, but I found them fiddly to work with because you have to cut out each individual symbol and position them yourself, which is not much fun with letters that are about 1 mm tall. I also found it’s best to cover them with a coat of paint as soon as the decals have dried, because else you may accidentally knock them loose again when handling the model.

we've got 8 separate pieces to each link(not quite but you know what I mean)

Like the Model Kasten tracks Mike is putting on his M4A1? Yeah, I stay well away from those

I enjoy your well researched, meticulous builds and this looks interesting. Building a specific vehicle requires more attention to detail but right up your street.

Thanks This one I’m building mainly because of my interest in the fighting in my area during the war, and because when it comes to Shermans from that, there are only two tanks to be built. So one without and one with the deep-wading gear seems a good idea

 

[Guest]

Fun with the suspension is next. RFM provides real coil springs to put inside each bogie, which I find very gimmicky but almost seems to be the norm nowadays. Posable suspension, fine. Working suspension … whatever for in a static model? I mean, the clue is in the name, isn’t it? Static model

Anyway, what RFM gives you is the lower parts of the volute springs in plastic, and a small coil spring to go above it so the bogies work. My first thought for fixing this was to put in one or two of the plastic plates Asuka provides in many of their Sherman kits, but that didn’t work: it prevented the inner and outer halves of the bogie body from fitting together properly. I therefore set about measuring how large a block I needed to add on top of the (plastic) springs to make them sit properly. It turns out there is a 3 mm gap above them, and there is a 1.5 mm deep hollow in the top. So, either a 3 mm block that fits on top or a 4.5 mm one that fits inside.

I spent a good deal of time tonight thinking what I could try and looking through stuff for something suitable, but no luck. Until I noticed this:

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The little bits of plastic you’d just throw away, attached to the return rollers. These turn out to be 4.5 mm high and they fit inside the plastic springs. Solution!

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On the left what you’re supposed to build, on the right my suggestion for how to improve on it.

After glueing those bits into the springs, it’s just the usual fiddly assembly of Sherman bogies that remains. I took the outer bogie body half, put the return roller on, added the spring bit with its arms, and then the inner half of the bogie body to trap the roller and springs between the Two. Holding all this together, I could then clip two wheel arms between them, taking care that the grease nipples faced out on both wheels. Only then did I glue the bogie halves together, taking care to leave the wheel arms loose. Repeat five times to get this:

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They still need the track skids on top, as well as four holes drilled in the front, but that’s for next time.

 

[outrunner]

Nice find that saved a bit of work.

Andy.

 

[Guest]

I was looking at all kinds of things, but couldn’t find or think of anything that was both easily available and simple to make consistently. For example, sawing off bits of sprue or plastic tube is an option, but making them consistently the same length is rather more difficult. Then I remembered that those bits of waste plastic on this kit are fairly deep, and got lucky, I suppose

 

[Guest]

Moving on to the turret for now, it has rather an excess of holes:

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The Sherman VC had a loader’s hatch added as well as an extension to the rear to house the radio, because the size of the gun and ammunition made it hard to load the gun with the radio in its normal position in the original turret bustle. To turn the model into a regular Mk. V, of course, that means those have to go. I cut and filed away the detail around the hatch as well as the lip around the hole for the 2-inch bomb thrower in the left front corner, because Cock o’the North doesn’t appear to have had this (it had a bracket for smoke launchers on the right turret side, meaning it almost certainly had no bomb thrower in the turret). I’ll fill the holes later with plastic card and putty them over.

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If you’re building a generic Mk. V, by the way, you can probably get away with leaving the hole in the rear open, as long as you cover it with a stowage box as was normal on British Shermans. Because my model will have deep-wading trunks, though, I will have to fill it.

The turret has a strange lip around it, towards the bottom:

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It’s not the seam between the upper and lower halves, but is moulded into the top half. I’ll have to putty it over and blend it in, I think.

The most visible difference between the Mk. V and VC is, of course, the gun. Because this kit doesn’t include a 75 mm gun and shield, you would need to find that in some other Sherman kit, from which you may well get it as a spare. Asuka kits, for example, tend to come with both M34 and M34A1 shields, so you’ll have one of the two left over; all you’d need to do is find a gun barrel, such as a turned aluminium on. For those interested in doing a similar conversion, I decided to see which gun shields can be used from other kits.

Asuka:

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Dragon:

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Resicast, from their separate 75 mm gun set:

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The Asuka shield fits almost perfectly, and would be good to go just by glueing it down, I think. The Dragon shield is slightly too narrow, but is also too tall to fit inside the opening. The Resicast one has the same problems, but in addition, its corners are too small in radius. This is unfortunate, because the Resicast set would be a very good one to buy for this kind of conversion.

 

[Guest]

Plates of 1 mm plastic card are now fitted in the turret:

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Gaps still need to be filled, but only once the glue has dried. I opened up the hole for the bomb thrower so I could put a piece of strip in without having to put rounded corners on it.

And back to the hull we go

The air intake at the front of the engine deck needs a waterproof cover, which Resicast provides in their set — several, in fact, intended for different kits. None is specifically for this one, because the set is older than the kit, but I tried one at first that is complete with the radiator cover:

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As you can see, this doesn’t fit terribly well, and its detail is also less good than the plastic part. Instead, I took another part that has only the two side plates, not the radiator cover, and cut those plates off:

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On the left is the complete part on its casting block, from another set (it helps if you’ve built a couple of these before ) so you can see what bits I removed. This way, it fits in the opening in the plastic engine deck:

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But it’s clearly too long, so I sawed off the front bit:

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and it does fit:

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On the back of the hull, I added the outlet chute (that’s the official name):

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Note the blanking plates between the hull and the chute, which I made from plastic card and put in from above. Resicast gives resin plates, but it’s far easier to cut a few pieces of plastic card to fill these gaps.

Also note the line of little raised bits on the hull side. These aren’t tie-downs, but the welds for the strips to which the sand shields attach. Since my subject didn’t have these strips, I cut off the welds after taking this photo.

Also on the sides, I glued on appliqué armour plates. Oddly, RFM doesn’t include these in the kit, despite many VCs having them. Luckily, I had some spare from an Asuka kit:

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If you don’t, then they’re easy enough to make from 0.75 mm plate. In 1:35, both rectangular plates are 22 mm long and 14 mm high; the third plate is 23 mm long, 15.5 mm high at the front and 12 mm at the back. All have corners with a radius of 1 mm.

I positioned them based on the official instructions, which is why there are pencilled lines on the hull sides: these indicate the turret centreline. Because working out where that is isn’t all that straightforward, here are the distances between the front edges of the plates and the front corner of the hull: right side 23 and 70 mm, left side 32 mm. All plates should be high enough on the hull side that they clear the sand shield attachment strips (or where those would be, if the tank doesn’t have them).

If you’re making your own, all you then need to do is add weld seams around the plates. Many tanks only had those on the top and sides, but not the bottom edge.

 

[Mini Me]

Good bit of progress on this Jakko.....look forward to further developments. Rick H.

 

[Guest]

The most recent development is that I puttied the seams and filed and sanded them flat:

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That done, I proceeded to cover it all back up again with more putty

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This, though, was smeared out thin and then thinned more with solvent, stippled with a stiff brush, etc. to get a bit of texture in it to match the rest of the turret.

 

[Mini Me]

Roger that.....I use Mr. Surfacer for the same results, the more you stipple it the rougher it gets. makes the best looking cast armour.....even in 1-87 scale. :thumb2: Rick H.

 

[adt70hk]

Coming on nicely Jakko.

As always amazing attention to detail.

ATB.

Andrew

 

[Guest]

I use Mr. Surfacer for the same results, the more you stipple it the rougher it gets.

I bought that long ago, but never really got the hang of using it. Thinned putty works fine for me, though, so I use that instead.

As always amazing attention to detail.

I just look at photos and try to build what I see there

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
Coming on very well. Good find on the bogie blocks. Saved a lot of time cutting and sanding. Turret is looking the part.

I just look at photos and try to build what I see there

True, but you also have the ability to interpret what you see in those grainy old fuzzy photos :tongue-out3:
Jim

 

[Guest]

That’s just experience, if you ask me

Progress on the turret:

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Most of this is just the kit parts, though the covered gun shield is Resicast, as is the gadget on the rear roof of the turret. However, RFM only provides a firing port hatch that’s welded shut, which was uncommon on British tanks. I found an Asuka hatch in my spares box, so I put that in instead. The strips on the back of the turret are for the stowage bin, that couldn’t be fitted when the wading trunks were on.