discussion Used to much decal softner

[Indolem]

Hi everyone

First of: happy new year!
I just started modeling and encountered an issue while applying water slide decals + softener.
Because the decal had a lot creases I got carried away with softener application.
Result, the decal has partly dissolved and has become sticky.
If I touch it, the decal paint comes off.

In short these are the steps I took:

1. Brushed on AK paint
2. Let paint dry overnight
3. Varnished with AK Matt Varnish
4. Let varnish dry overnight
5. Soak decal while applying softener (MIG Decal Softener) with brush
6. Slide on decal
7. Struggle with alignment and apply some more softener to help with positioning
8. Start to notice issues, apply more softener...

Below a couple pics.
I've already established that I used too much softener, so now wondering if I can do something about the stickiness.
Is it safe to apply another coat of varnish to "seal it in"?
Can I touch up the damaged decal with AK paint?

Hope someones has encountered this in the past and I'd love to hear you guy's expertise!

Thanks
Francis

View attachment 441768View attachment 441769View attachment 441770

 

[Jim R]

Hi Francis
The decal softener has definitely reacted badly to either the paint or the decal itself. I would leave it alone for at least a day or so and see what it's like then. If it is still poor I would lightly sand it back, repaint the base colour and then paint on the black and white stripes.
I have not used the MIG softener but I know that the stuff I use needs to be allowed to dry between applications.
Jim

 

[rtfoe]

Francis,
I see the problem and its not the softener. In your list you varnished with Matt Varnish...it should be Gloss Varnish so the surface would be smooth for the decal to slide on. This helps in positioning the decal before applying the softener.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[rtfoe]

Francis,
I would recommend you sand off the decal when its hardened and paint the stripes on or get a new set of decals. Just remember to spray gloss varnish before decaling.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Mark1]

As Richard mentioned, apply decals on gloss will make life a lot easier, a light coat of decal softener and I use a damp cotton bud starting from the middle and roll outwards to shape the decal,if it doesn't go down properly leave to dry then repeat the process as many times as necessary, and if it's any concellation the shape that decal has to go over would be a pain for a non beginner.

 

[Indolem]

Already several reactions within short time frame, nice!
:thumb2::thumb2:
Thanks guys

Take aways I'm getting are:

1. Decals don't have to go on in one single go and can be moistened again.
2. Gloss rather than matt varnish
3. It should harden further (even though it's already on almost 24h)

Just applied a couple more other decals on the same varnish and that went well.
They have also become sticky though...

I'll try to see if I can seal it in with some varnish if it doesn't fully harden.
Can test it on the underside of the plane for instance.

Learning as we go :upside:

 

[stillp]

If you need to move a decal, don't apply softener, use water. Softener is for use after the decal is in the right position, to help it settle onto the model.
Pete

 

[BarryW]

I used MiG softener and found ‘bloom’ issues and stopped using it.

Also from what you said it looks as if you used it wrong. You should brush it on when the decal is in place and you have squeezed any water/decal setter out from under the decal. Once brushed on you do not touch it and leave it for several hours or ideally overnight. Often you find the decal wrinkling after softener application but ignore it, it will sort itself out.

 

[Steve Jones]

Hi Francis

Welcome to the forum. For future builds invest in either micro sol setter and softener or the equivalent Mr Hobby versions. These are the proven ones that work well.



As already stated use Gloss varnish on the area where the decals are to go. Also Gloss varnish can take longer than a day to dry especially if you put it on too thick. If sticky to touch then it still needs more drying time. Once dry wet the area with microsol or Mr Hobby setter then slide the decal off the decal sheet onto the varnished area. You only really need to use softener if the surface area is not flat and can be added a day later once the setter has fully dried if needed.

 

[BarryW]

I have just looked at my MiG decal solutions.

Each are numbered.
1 - Decal Set, to be applied to the model before the decal. You then position it and carefully squeeze out the solution by rolling with a cotton bud. This is generically called ‘setting solution’

The complication may be because you used softener where setting solution should be used.

Bottle marked 2 - Decal Fix is softener and should be applied to the decal when positioned and then not touched. It would be better if that was called softener as most do.

If you used softener before positioning the decal by brushing it on the model then it will cause the problem you described. It is much stronger than ‘setting solution’.

 

[BarryW]

Just one further point. It has correctly been pointed out that a gloss varnish before decals is a good idea. This is to help avoid ‘silvering’ caused by air being trapped under the decal.

This does help but is not necessarily essential as what you really need is a smooth surface that helps minimise trapped air which need not necessarily be a gloss varnish. The important point being to eliminate trapped air.

 

[Ian M]

Not a MiG user myself but they are much the same stuff.

Decal softener so are to be used on a decal that has been placed, more or less dry but needs help getting sucked down around detail so they conform to the surface. Once applied it should be left to do its work. A second application can be used once dry if the decal is still not in all the nooks and crannies of the surface.
If past saving you might be able to remove any high spots with very fine wet sanding, the touch it up with paint.
Regarding the stickiness it may well dry up over time. A mix of vinegar and water, MIGHT remove it.

 

[Guest]

Decals don't have to go on in one single go and can be moistened again.

Not once they’re firmly fixed to the model, I think.

Gloss rather than matt varnish

Yes, because gloss varnish (or paint) has a smooth surface while matt is like very fine sandpaper.

With stripes like those, by the way, I would have painted them. Masking tape is easier to fit well against the model, and you can take it off and try again if you don’t get it in the right place on the first try. But at the same time, now you’ve learned important things about working with decals

 

[Guest]

Might be nothing to do with the problem but when taking the decal off the backing , instead of having a dish of water I use a pipette of water on a tile. Shallow and easy to use.

 

[Gern]

As we're on the subject ....

I'm sure I read somewhere that 'setting' solution softens the carrier film allowing it to conform to the surface better, while 'softener' dissolves the carrier film leaving just the paint or whatever is used for the coloured part of the decal.

Is my memory playing tricks again?

 

[Indolem]

Lot's of great input guys, thanks!
Had mixed results applying rest of the decals.
Most of the time not the best to be honest...
Although it looked ok after initial application, bubbles have formed.
Probably due to a combination of water still underneath and the matt varnish.

Also noticed the decal reported about above is not in the proper position after all :loudly-crying:
The instruction sheet was wrong about this.
Next lesson learned thereby: check even more reference photos.

I'm planning to share a small "lessons learned" list once I completed this first build.

 

[Mark1]

Like.most aspects of modelling it's about practice and finding a method and materials that suit you.

 

[Del640]

Joining the party late here....I use VMS decal softener.
I varnish (gloss) the area, apply the decal soft followed by the decal, squeeze out excess softer with a damp bud rolling it over the decal and wipe away the excess with a damp brush.

There's a very good video from VMS on YT showing you the process.

Simple and effective.

Good luck.

Del

 

[stona]

I just read through this thread and didn't see anyone stating perhaps the most obvious, though Barry touched on it.

If decals have a bad reaction to a softener LEAVE THEM ALONE.

Any attempt to improve the situation until they have completely dried will ALWAYS make it worse. Leave them for as long as you can, at least overnight.

After that you may be surprised how they have settled down. If you are still not happy you'll have to think about removing them (nightmare), or other remedial work, but that's a separate issue. You'll have more options for having left them to dry.

 

[Indolem]

I just read through this thread and didn't see anyone stating perhaps the most obvious, though Barry touched on it.

If decals have a bad reaction to a softener LEAVE THEM ALONE.

Any attempt to improve the situation until they have completely dried will ALWAYS make it worse. Leave them for as long as you can, at least overnight.

After that you may be surprised how they have settled down. If you are still not happy you'll have to think about removing them (nightmare), or other remedial work, but that's a separate issue. You'll have more options for having left them to dry.

Even after several days of drying it is still sticky. Yesterday evening I went over de bubbled up and sticky areas with some paint. That already helped a lot.
There's run off of the solution on my model and that I'll probably get rid of also by painting.
Luckily it's on the underside so I'll leave it.

Some parts of the large decals (strips on the wing) seemed ok but after drying has very small bubbles in them as well.

The MIG softener seems to be pretty strong because on the last decals I applied only little bit and still those have become sticky.
Anyways, a good couple quotes of varnish should make everything uniform again.
Not giving up on the softener just yet since it might by primarily the varnish causing troubles.
Will keep you guys up to date on that.