discussion Choice of brush for acrylics

[Guest]

Age old problem I'm sure, having always used W&N No 7 I decided to try some DaVinci Sable in a set of miniatures. Great brush , well made but like W&N expensive . Today I decided to search for a synthetic hopefully cheaper than a Sable . Hard to check the sizes as W&N sizes don't always match other manufacturers. Really looking for the equivalent of W&N no 0 and maybe one smaller .
Anybody have any suggestions please .Thanks John .

 

[adt70hk]

Tim

Recommended Rosemary & Co brushes....pure sable series 93 up to size 2. I like them and not too expensive.

HTH.

Andrew

 

[zuludog]

Sable brushes were recommended as for a long time they were the only decent fibres available, but they always seem to wear out on me- or perhaps that's just me

However, in recent years synthetic fibres have improved considerably, and I like Winsor and Newton Sceptre Gold 11 brushes; in fact I prefer them to all sable
They are a synthetic/sable mixture, and slightly springier and more resilient than all sable, and cheaper too. (well that's not surprising; most brushes are cheaper than W&N Kolinsky #7)
Search for them on t'Net

I have also bought brushes from www.abcbrushes.com who have a wide range at reasonable prices
They are discontinued and seconds of quality makes, but still very good, and I can hardly find any faults
They have general packs of mixed sizes, and packs for detail/miniature painting

And if your old brushes are getting worn or clogged I can thoroughly recommend Masters Brush Cleaning Soap. There are several YouTube videos about it, and Search for it on t'Net, but make sure you get the brush cleaning soap in the plastic tub and not the bar of hand cleaning soap

 

[KarlW]

Rosemary&Co blended brushes, iirc series 11.
Issue with pure sable us the lack of "spring" which is fine for painting on a flat surface.
They do flats in the same blend too.

 

[Guest]

Thanks all , appreciate the feed back .
Now have a short list to consider .
John

 

[Tim Marlow]

Da Vinci 8404s are the bees knees as far as I’m concerned. Ideal spring and snap. Expensive, but the best I’ve ever used. Don’t buy them unless you really know how to clean your brushes and never dry brush or use metallics with them, it ruins the point.
W&N series seven QC isn’t what it was. My last ones were no better than Rosemary and Co, so why spend the extra. R and C kolinskys are great as a workaday brush, sharp and quite long lasting. However, anything bigger than size 1 doesn’t hold a point for me.
As to synthetic fibres, haven’t tried any for a few years, but have yet to find one that doesn’t hook after a while. Great for small scale drybrushing and metallics though.

 

[Guest]

Tim
My cleaning regime is rinse out , then clean brush gently in Masters Soap .Rinse again , then using the crease in a half closed hand pull the brush through to keep the shape.
I might be a messy worker but cleaning brushes well started with my use of Purdy paint brushes from the states .I've still got some that are 10 years old and look like new .

 

[Tim Marlow]

Tim
My cleaning regime is rinse out , then clean brush gently in Masters Soap .Rinse again , then using the crease in a half closed hand pull the brush through to keep the shape.
I might be a messy worker but cleaning brushes well started with my use of Purdy paint brushes from the states .I've still got some that are 10 years old and look like new .

Very similar to my regime John. Only difference is that I repoint mine in my mouth :dizzy: Storage is also important John. Bristles downward with the protective sheath on the tip. I get at least a year more out of mine now I do this. It stops residual liquid migrating to the ferrule and splaying the bristles….

 

[Steve Jones]

Sorry to hijack the thread John but what would you recommend for brushes used for oils Tim. I use Rosemary synthetic but after about two builds they have hooked and lost their points. I know the thinners give brushes a real beating. So is man made or natural fibres better Tim please.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi Steve. I did a fair bit of oil work on figures back in the mists of time and just used kolinsky sables. I used to thin my oils with Sansodor and add liquin to smooth out the finish. The brushes quoted above should do the job well, but you’ll need a good cleaning regime because the solvents are quite hard on the bristles. I used to use white spirit followed by washing up liquid, but that is really too harsh for good brushes. If I went back to it I’d try to use artists brush cleaner followed up by masters brush soap, occasionally giving the brushes a dunk in hair conditioner to restore the natural spring as much as possible. Last thing is that oil and water don’t mix, so brushes used for oils will be no good for subsequent acrylic painting. Keep a separate set for each discipline.

 

[Steve Jones]

Great advice Tim. Many thanks

 

[Jim R]

I don't actually need any brushes at the moment but it's a very useful thread, notes made for future reference. :thumb2:

 

[zuludog]

Here are some comments on Winsor & Newton brushes, with typical prices for a size 2 brush

#7 Kolinsky sable £20-68 Obviously an excellent brush but I find them a bit too soft and no matter how careful I am they always seem to wear out on me

Sceptre Gold 11 £5-39 My preferred type, sable/synthetic mixture, a bit more springy and resilient than all sable

Cotman £4-40 A synthetic watercolour brush, about the same or perhaps softer than sable. I have a couple but prefer something springier

University £3-50 This is W&N's budget range, and none the worse for that, synthetic, a bit more springy than sable or Sceptre Gold 11. I have #0 & #00 and they're OK for details, I might try a larger size or a flat

Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable £5-27 I haven't used any of these, but might try one in the near future. Could be worth trying if you like sable but want something cheaper

So as we might expect, all the synthetic brushes are much cheaper than #7 sable
If you're looking for new brushes, especially if you want something cheaper than all sable, you could buy one of each in the same size, and see how they compare, they're cheap enough

And if you're wondering where to start, you could include a #7 sable, and see if you think the extra cost is worth it.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Here are some comments on Winsor & Newton brushes, with typical prices for a size 2 brush

#7 Kolinsky sable £20-68 Obviously an excellent brush but I find them a bit too soft and no matter how careful I am they always seem to wear out on me

Sceptre Gold 11 £5-39 My preferred type, sable/synthetic mixture, a bit more springy and resilient than all sable

Cotman £4-40 A synthetic watercolour brush, about the same or perhaps softer than sable. I have a couple but prefer something springier

University £3-50 This is W&N's budget range, and none the worse for that, synthetic, a bit more springy than sable or Sceptre Gold 11. I have #0 & #00 and they're OK for details, I might try a larger size or a flat

Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable £5-27 I haven't used any of these, but might try one in the near future. Could be worth trying if you like sable but want something cheaper

So as we might expect, all the synthetic brushes are much cheaper than #7 sable
If you're looking for new brushes, especially if you want something cheaper than all sable, you could buy one of each in the same size, and see how they compare, they're cheap enough

And if you're wondering where to start, you could include a #7 sable, and see if you think the extra cost is worth it.

Try a Raphael 8404 Zulu dog. I used series seven for best work until I tried one. They have more spring and snap, come to a razor sharp point, and wear very well. I cert wouldn’t go back.
I don’t use flats much now as I usually spray larger areas, but when I did Cotman were my go tos.
Septre gold I’ve used as general work brushes and for drybrushing when they age. Not tried the others.
Rosemary and Co brushes are worth exploring if you are thinking about trying anything else.
For really rough work, scenery, priming etc, I buy the cheap packs of brushes and use those. They won’t do the fine stuff, but they are very useful nonetheless.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Oh, and it’s worth exploring other brush shapes other than rounds and flats……Filberts make great dry brushes. The curved edges don’t leave a straight line. Angled shaders can be good in some situations as well….

 

[Guest]

Here are some comments on Winsor & Newton brushes, with typical prices for a size 2 brush

#7 Kolinsky sable £20-68 Obviously an excellent brush but I find them a bit too soft and no matter how careful I am they always seem to wear out on me

Sceptre Gold 11 £5-39 My preferred type, sable/synthetic mixture, a bit more springy and resilient than all sable

Cotman £4-40 A synthetic watercolour brush, about the same or perhaps softer than sable. I have a couple but prefer something springier

University £3-50 This is W&N's budget range, and none the worse for that, synthetic, a bit more springy than sable or Sceptre Gold 11. I have #0 & #00 and they're OK for details, I might try a larger size or a flat

Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable £5-27 I haven't used any of these, but might try one in the near future. Could be worth trying if you like sable but want something cheaper

So as we might expect, all the synthetic brushes are much cheaper than #7 sable
If you're looking for new brushes, especially if you want something cheaper than all sable, you could buy one of each in the same size, and see how they compare, they're cheap enough

And if you're wondering where to start, you could include a #7 sable, and see if you think the extra cost is worth it.

Thanks zuludog, nice list to check out , appreciate your help .

Oh, and it’s worth exploring other brush shapes other than rounds and flats……Filberts make great dry brushes. The curved edges don’t leave a straight line. Angled shaders can be good in some situations as well…

Tim, yes thanks.
Think I'm going line up all my brushes and sort them into some sort of order. Although they are in a holder they end up getting mixed make wise up due to the size of the handles. Like the idea of the Filberts for dry rushing, currently using flats ex oil brushes and too thick .

 

[zuludog]

Well, lots of ideas, that's what Forums are for .......... decisions, decisions
However, there's only one way to find out what you like and that's to buy one or two of each type and see how they compare

And don't forget ABC Brushes; their mixed pack FS-2, 10 brushes for £12-50, is good value and covers a range of sizes

As if I don't have enough already, I'm going to order a couple of brushes from -

Rafael 8404, to see if they change my opinion about sable
W&N Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable, to see what they're like

I understand that filberts were designed by a Mr Filbert to give a similar sort of coverage & performance as flats, but without a hard edge to the brush strokes

Despite the usual advice, I keep my brushes stored upright in three old jam jars - for sizes up to 0; sizes 1 to 3; and sizes 4 and above

 

[Tim Marlow]

Well, lots of ideas, that's what Forums are for .......... decisions, decisions
However, there's only one way to find out what you like and that's to buy one or two of each type and see how they compare

Amen to that. Brushes are a bit subjective really, what suits one painter may not suit another. All comes down to how you use them and what you use them for.

What I would say though is keep your sharp detail brushes for sharp detail. Paint mixing, metallics, dry brushing and washes will ruin the point in short order. Also, don’t buy the expensive brands such as series seven and Raphael 8404 until you have really learned how to clean what you already have. It’s a costly way to buy a paint stirrer…..

 

[spanner570]

very interesting and mind boggling thread for sure.

The following might be of interest and is a complete opposite to all the excellent contributions so far.

Being a total and utter cheapskate, I only buy the cheapest brushes possible from Poundshops and the like. A couple of quid gets me half a dozen of different sizes. I also use those brushes that come with Airfix 'Starter' kits. Yes, they don't last all that long, but I'm perfectly happy with the results obtained. When they loose their points, I trim the bristles off square and use them for stippling etc.

As to cleaning, I have little tub of that expensive Master's stuff, which I hardly use.
I prefer a cleaner called 'The Pink Stuff' It rips the paint out of my brushes in nothing flat!

A reet good minefield for sure. but as has been pointed out in this thread, we all have different preferences and depth of pockets, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how good or bad a brush is, as long as the modeller is happy with the final result he has obtained then all is good.

Ron

 

[zuludog]

Yes, I use the brushes from the Airfix starter kits as well, and I think they're quite good
I haven't had much success with very cheap brushes, they tend to splay very quickly, or the bristles fall out as I'm using them
Although that was years ago and they probably had dirt cheap natural fibres, or the early synthetic, perhaps they've improved
I do use one cheap brush though; a soft #8 natural fibre that I've had for years, I use it to sweep off dust & filings when I'm filling & sanding joint lines

But as I mentioned I've just ordered a few more brushes -

From www.artsupplies.co.uk a couple of W&N Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable

From www.jacksonart.com a couple each of -
Rafael 8404
W&N University
I noticed they had DaVinci Colineo Synthetic Sable on offer, don't know anything about then, but I thought I'd try those as well

I too cut down old worn brushes for stippling/mottling and dry brushing
I've seen Pink Stuff on t'Net, but you've got to draw the line somewhere

EDIT - I've just Searched for the Pink Stuff on t'Net and it's a general cleaner, so I might get some anyway, and I can use it around the house - and if it's as good as they say, I can spend less time cleaning and more time on model making