discussion Acrylic or enamel?

[rickoshea52]

Horses for courses. I have recently started using Vallejo Model Air for my build but I still use enamels for my railway builds and for weathering, I find them easier to work with as they can still be manipulated after application for streaking etc.

 

[Guest]

This is my first model and the paints needed were advised and they happened to be enamels. I started off with them but got fed up having to clean the brushes with thinners and stinking the house out. /QUOTE]
Exactly why I use Acrylics Keith.

Thanks for all your responses. I see a lot of you use Vallejo acrylics and I get the distinct impressions that the majority on the forum consider them to be the best so I will definitely try them next time. Cheers. Keith.

Vallejo (as you have chosen the Acrylic route {got to mention that or I will gather the wrath of the enamellers}) best to begin with as they are very easy to use and you only need water to clean them although best with a cleaner. Except for a few in the Model Range they are non toxic although never tried eating them. Toxic ones are noted on the front label. Nice thing about Vallejo it is kind. If you put on to heavier coat it will on average, unless ridiculously thick, flatten out. This probably more with Model Air (airbrush) than Model hand brush. All the water based acrylics do dry quickly an advantage sometimes at others a disadvantage. Normally second coat within an hour or less. In the pallet the paint thickens quickly and it is worth getting some retarder although this ironically will then lengthen the drying process for successive coats.


Found that for hand brushing the Model type goes on to give a very dense coat. Model Air has a part to play with hand brushing. I use it on 1/48 aircrew. It gives a mid transparent finish giving a bit more realism with shadow on folds of clothes. Whereas Model, I find, tends to flatten them out.


I am now going for a mixture as this broadens the colours available. Lifecolor and Mig Acrylics although they are more prepared for airbrushing than hand brushing. They all are water based but have a few different characteristics. I would say stick to Vallejo until you get the feel then broaden out. Recommend using Vallejo thinners which has the same characteristics of the paint and which thins the paint colour density not the actual density of the paint


For cleaning I would go for Vallejo Airbrush cleaner it is the best cleaner I have come across both for Airbrush and for Hand brushes. With the brushes I quarter fill a Colemans mustard small glass jar and suspend the brushes just clear of the bottom. With Acrylic water based going off so fast the paint accumulates at the stock. I dip in cleaner and work it into the join of the hair and metal with my fingers. Keeps your hands clean as well at the same time. Nothing like multi tasking.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

enamels are not good for health. they are toxic. that reason i prefer acrylics. i use gunze and (mostly)tamiya acrylics for airbrush, revell and (mostly)vallejo acrylics for brush

To be honest I had never considered the health issues in using enamels but maybe you have a point. It is the blasted smell and that of the thinners that I can't stand, it stinks the house out and that causes my wife to complain, takes all the fun out of it

 

[Guest]

hmmm i might have to dig out my collection of artists acrylic paints i didn't know you could use them i thought the model paint acrylic had some kind of additive in it to help it adhere to the plastic.

 

[Guest]

i thought the model paint acrylic had some kind of additive in it to help it adhere to the plastic.

The primers do Dave. Top coats while adhering to plastic have not the same ability as the primer


Laurie

 

[Guest]

thanks laurie i did plan to use a primer but i have never a rattle tin or an airbrush only ever used a brush so if you could get a brush on primer with no smell to it that would be perfect for me

 

[Guest]

For what it's worth, Vallejo primer brushes on very well, pick your brush wisely - suggest a chisel synthetic sable of around 10-12 mm and be prepared to give it a couple of coats.

 

[colin m]

Thanks for that Barry, Vallejo Model Colour it is for me then as I only use a brush, total rubbish with a spray. Mind you I am not that good with a brush either.

I thin model colour with water or Vallejo's own brand thinner for spraying. It works for me.

 

[Guest]

thanks laurie i did plan to use a primer but i have never a rattle tin or an airbrush only ever used a brush so if you could get a brush on primer with no smell to it that would be perfect for me

Vallejo primer is OK for both brush and airbrush Dave. Large areas perhaps experiement with thinnercoats rather than one thick.


Forgot to add and it does not smell.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

there is another brand for brush painting. warhammer players use them to paint figures. Brand name is Citadel. it is very brush friendly, easy to paint. i never tried it but i heard very good comments about it. even you can use it with synthetic brushes, it doesnt leave brush prints behind.


i dont know it is ok to send a link like this page but here is a link for you.


http://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Painting-Modelling?N=102285+4294966611Ν=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table

 

[Ian M]

Vallejo Model Colour are for the hairy stick.

I thin and spray them all the time with out any issues that are worth mentioning. I find that they are also very economical as well.


By the way Peter, Vallejo also do Day Glow....


Ian M

 

[takeslousyphotos]

I thin and spray them all the time with out any issues that are worth mentioning. I find that they are also very economical as well.
By the way Peter, Vallejo also do Day Glow....


Ian M

Thanks Ian ........ I have never used Valejo Acrylics ....... I'll file that away for the future.


Peter

 

[stona]

To be honest I had never considered the health issues in using enamels but maybe you have a point. It is the blasted smell and that of the thinners that I can't stand, it stinks the house out and that causes my wife to complain, takes all the fun out of it

Enamel paints are not any more 'toxic' than acrylics. If you don't use a good extractor and/or mask then you will be inhaling an aerosol of either type when spraying, its just that generally you can smell the enamel solvent and not the acrylic, though have a whiff of one of Tamiya's so called acrylics. All paints are solvent based and not all acrylics use sympathetic (to us) solvents.


The trick is to find what works for you and use that. Given the limited exposure you should have in any normal modelling use, and sensible use of protection, the toxicity argument is not really valid. I bet you would have a greater exposure to solvents painting the skirting boards in one room or varnishing one floor than in a year's model making.


If you don't like the smell of certain paints (and both enamels and 'acrylics' can have strong odours) then that's a good reason to try something else.


Personally I like traditional enamels because they are easier to spray. They are more tolerant of imprecise thinning and variations in spraying pressure and they never dry at the airbrush tip or before hitting the model surface. They are also very easy to clean. The longer drying time gives plenty of time to spot any cock ups and they can often be fixed whilst the paint is still drying. The longer drying time also teaches that most valuable of all lessons to any model builder...patience.


Others will make similar arguments (apart from drying times) for their preference, but that's okay


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

I am going to use my artist's tube acrylics this time as I have just paid £12 for them. I have just spent over 4 hours (don't laugh) masking up my Apollo Saturn V in preparation for the first gloss coat, the entire outside is just a patchwork of black and white squares and I have decided to paint the white first. This is my question... How long should I leave the finished (prob 2 coats) of white before masking up for the black to be certain that I won't damage the white when I eventually remove it?

 

[stona]

I'm not familiar with the acrylic paints you are using but now is a useful time to raise the difference between drying and curing. All paints dry and cure as a result of various chemical reactions. Acrylic paints dry much quicker than some other solvent based paints, but they still require time for the reactions to complete, giving a fully cured and hardened surface. I would leave your first colour over night at least before masking.


I often read of people masking after a few hours but always ask myself why they are in such a hurry? Why take the risk? If it does go wrong and they have to start again it will certainly take longer


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

Interesting not really sure what toxic means (my referral to toxic is a Laurie definition). But thought it related to the harm that it can do to living objects by using certain substances. The toxicity can be harmful depending on the exposure to the substances. Humans and animals vary in their vulnerability to a toxic substance. That is some may not be vulnerable at all some may be at the slightest whiff or touch of a toxic substance. Think all that is reasonably correct.


First I did not choose to use acrylics because I thought they would or would not produce a better finish than Enamels or were easier to use.


I chose acrylics as for me enamel paint was harmful. It gave me a thundering headache even with a fan to remove it the stuff. The thinners white spirit also produced a nettle rash (should have known as petrol does the same) not within secs but say after a night of spraying and cleaning. Whether this in scientific terms is toxic I have no idea.


I also suffer from a dratted skin disease called Psoriasis. Use of thinners aggravated this complaint making the skin red raw at times. In fact for all these reasons if it had not been for acrylics I would have had to pack it all in.


I then turned to acrylics, water based, and have not had any of the above problems since. So for me enamels are toxic (by my definition) for others not so. I suppose there is the possibility they affect some without them realising but then you could say the same about Vallejo thinner or probably more so the Vallejo airbrush Cleaner which is more potent than the thinner. Although I have not heard of any complaints in this direction.


Not tried the Tamiya solvent based acrylics so I cannot tell if that would have a harmful effect to me.


So if you are allergic in any way then I would be careful as from my understanding and experience allergic reactions grow in intensity with the use and carry on, hopefully with an end insight, for a time after the substance is no longer used.


Leaving the above aside I just found that using enamel thinners permeated throughout the house with this awfull smell.


I would say to any one get some enamel and some acrylic paint and try both (not at the same time). It is the only way that you are going to find if you are allergic to one or the other. Also to find the capabilities the ease of use and which finish you like best. In my opinion, from what I have seen, superb models have been produced here in both acrylic and enamels.


Bit of irony. I swear by acrylics for painting due to all the above. However if I walk through M and S I have an allergic reaction to all the acrylic clothing in the place.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

I would leave your first colour over night at least before masking.
Cheers Steve

Actually with water based Acrylics Steve 24 hours at least and really to be safe best 48 hours. A lot depends on how the plastic has been prepared for the primer and that primer has in fact been used.


How do I know all of that. Patience as has been said. Strip masking tape with the paint attached is not a happy event and takes a lot longer to correct than the extra 24 hours it would have been better to wait.


Actually the car body lining tape I find is better than Tamiya type tape . It sticks better has a good edge seal and releases better.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

I'm not familiar with the acrylic paints you are using but now is a useful time to raise the difference between drying and curing. All paints dry and cure as a result of various chemical reactions. Acrylic paints dry much quicker than some other solvent based paints, but they still require time for the reactions to complete, giving a fully cured and hardened surface. I would leave your first colour over night at least before masking.
I often read of people masking after a few hours but always ask myself why they are in such a hurry? Why take the risk? If it does go wrong and they have to start again it will certainly take longer


Cheers


Steve

Thanks for the info Steve, I have decided I will leave it for a min of 24 hours before putting masking tape on it. As you say, what's the rush and why take the risk? Laurie suggests perhaps 48 hours to be absolutely safe and I may do that. Cheers.


Keith.

 

[Guest]

Just forgotten Keith you are using acrylics with hand brushing. As hand brushing is going to be, by it's nature, a thicker paint film and take more time to cure also you are using an artists acrylic of unknown characteristics I would definitely go with 48 hours cure time.


I would stick a bit of paint on spare plastic and test before you stick any tape on the model.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

I would stick a bit of paint on spare plastic and test before you stick any tape on the model.


Laurie

Good idea Laurie, thanks for that, I will do that for sure as it's the only way to be certain. I will defo leave it for 48 hours anyway.


BTW Sorry to learn you suffer from psoriasis, a very nasty complaint to have I am sure. Hope you manage to keep it under control.