discussion Acrylic or enamel?

[Ian M]

Being fortunate enough to not suffer allergies, skin conditions or lunge issues worse than the self inflicted tobacco I use what ever type of paint 'gets the job done' or is the best colour.


Buy a good mask, a box of latex gloves and some form of extraction system (remember to left fresh air in as well) and 99% of the immediate issues are solved.


As for stinking out the whole house, open a window and shut the door.


The only time the good lady has made any comment is when I have used "a bit much" cellulose thinner during a good clean up. Oh and when I knocked over a bottle liquid poly... Even I left the room.

 

[Guest]

As for stinking out the whole house, open a window and shut the door.

Yes, of course, I do that already, but living in a bungalow means every room is close to every other room, hence strong smells, such as thinners, easily and rapidly spread through the whole house. Because of that, and the ease of cleaning brushes and easy brush application, I will stick with acrylics. This way I am happy, my dear wife is happy, and what's more, no nasty smells in the house, apart from those caused by the dogs of course.

 

[Guest]

i have been using tamiya acrylics for a number of years now and as some of you may already know i have started using Revell aqua colour because there is no smell to them and they brush on very well i also have used humbrol acrylics in the past which are also very good and both revell and humbrol can be thinned and cleaned up with water.

 

[Gern]

When I first started modelling again, I bought two types of paint - Tamiya acrylics and Revell Aqua. I found I couldn't use the Tamiya with a brush to save my life - and others have made similar comments although it's supposed to be excellent for use in an airbrush. The Aqua is great for brush painting. It should be thinned and I've always done this by adding a few drops of water to the container as I stir it to mix the pigment back in to the carrier. Problem with that is it leaves a residue of dried paint around the inside of the container (the blue liquid is the carrier for the pigment which has settled to the bottom):


View attachment 101251



Of course, subsequent stirring causes some of this dried paint to fall off - which naturally clogs up your airbrush if you try to spray it! You can also find these lumps of paint get onto your kit when you use an ordinary brush but I've not had any significant problems with that.


Consequently, I switched to Revell and Humbrol enamels. Steve (Stona) very kindly gave me a demonstration of using an airbrush with enamels and I managed to get some good results - for me that is. Unfortunately, despite opening a window and wearing a mask, the fumes from the paint and thinner caused coughing. (I'll be getting an extractor booth when funds allow and try again as I do like the finish I can get with enamels.)


Now I use Vallejo almost exclusively unless I can't find the colour I need or it's just tiny bits where I can use just about any paint. I find I can use both Model Air and Model Colour for painting with a brush or an airbrush. They both need to be thinned for both applications but I can't give exact ratios. I add thinner until it seems right then test spray or brush and adjust if needed. I will just add that I do not use Vallejo thinner for Vallejo metallic colours. Every time I've tried that, the paint turns into a thick gooey mess like treacle and I've had to spend a considerable time cleaning out my airbrush. I thin the metallics with just a few drops of tap water and they work fine.


The choice between enamels and acrylics eventually comes down to what works for you as an individual. Once you've chosen, you'll improve the finish and results you get with practise. Then you could start looking at the differences between the paint types in terms of more precise kinds of finish you need - rough, dirty matt on tanks etc v. smooth, shiny, high-gloss on cars for example. Then you might find yourself selecting a particular type of paint for a particular finish.

View attachment 214274

 

[BarryW]

It certainly is strange how people all have different experiences with different paints and we all develop our own preferences as we should based on those experiences.


A lot of us like Vallejo for all the reasons explained but there are some shortcomings with them. For me the main problem is the confusing and mixed up paint labelling. Some examples:


For RAF Medium Sea Grey the Vallejo recommendation in their WWII British Aircraft Colours RAF-FAA leaflet is to use Model Air .047 which is labelled US Grey and not .049 which is actually labelled Medium Sea Grey. Then there is RAF Dark Green, Vallejo suggest Model Air 0.16 US Dark Green. For Ocean Grey it is .048 Dark Sea Grey and so on.... The confusion does not stop at that either, you get it accross their range. Indeed if you look at various other colour comparison sites then you can get other answers such as 0.13 Yellow Olive for RAF Dark Green. At least Vallejo do all label their RLM equivalents accordingly but even so many of them share different colour 'roles' with for instance RLM81 also being labelled as Olive Drab.


Now I am not particularly anal about colour and do not get into arguments you see on-line as to whose interpretation of RLM02 is closest. The truth is that any or all of them could be right, but I do like to have a clearly idenified colour for a particular purpose.


That is the main reason I am gradually switching to AK Interactive acrylics now they are producing the 'Air' series paint. The 'Air' referes to them being designed for aircraft, not the airbrush.


They produce specific paints for specific purposes that are well researched. Consequently they have their WW2 RAF Camo set with their Medium Sea Grey actually being RAF Medium Sea Grey!! No confusion. They have two RLM sets, a WW2 IJN set and a Modern US set as well so far with more to produce.


They also have all the advantages of Vallejo - the eye dropper bottle, they spray beautifully unthinned (0.4 needle), in fact I believe they spray better than Vallejo Model Air and are less prone to tip drying. They are also designed for the hairy stick as well. They are certainly not just Vallejo in a different label which was what I thought they would be before I tried them out.


There is one shortcoming of the AKI air series acryilics in that they are not yet available as single bottles, only in sets. I am told that will change when they bring out a few more sets. I will snap them up when new sets do come out and in the meantime I am just hoping I don't run out of a colour before the 1/24 Tiffy is finished!!!

 

[stona]

Great comment Dave, and very informative.


You also raise that perennial old chestnut of thinning ratios and pressures. It is entirely understandable that those new to airbrushing will seek advice about these most important criteria, whatever paints they are using. It is also important to understand that whilst some general and helpful advice can and always will be given by the members here, it is impossible to give exact or precise figures.


Whether you use acrylic or enamel paints, whichever brand and whatever airbrush set up, there is no substitute for experimentation. You just have to work out what works best for you.


For example, I spray my enamels thinned anywhere from 60/40 to 40/60, depending on the individual paint, at about 35-40 psi. I never measure anything exactly, I just go by 'feel' developed over the years. The compressor pressure is set on the standard cheap valve and must be, by definition, approximate. These valves are definitely not precision instruments! Others will find something completely different works for them, no matter which paints they use.


I do find as I read online forums that there is a tendency to over think the issues. As another example, I often apply the dreaded by many Luftwaffe mottle to my models and have read all sorts of advice on how to do this. Lower the pressure, thin the pint more, build up several coats etc, etc. I just spray it like anything else and I'm sure this would work for most other so called special finishes or effects


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

As I have mentioned many times in the past, when it comes to paint I would not limit myself to one particular type. As has been seen from the many experiences above, each type of paint, and even each different manufacturer, has it's own strengths and weaknesses so they should be used accordingly. Acrylics tend to be a thinner film so tend to show detail better but enamels defenately give a better high gloss finish so may be easier to get the perfect finish for car and motorcycle bodywork. These different qualities also lend the paints to be better for different techniques, for instance acrylics tend to dry too fast to be the best for dry brushing so I nealy always use enamels for that. There is also of course oils, which are by far the best media for washes so my learnings over the years has led me to the bottom line of use what ever paint is best for the thing you are doing and don't limit yourself to one type.

 

[Guest]

I have seen the term "dry brushing" mentioned a number of times in different threads. Could somebody please tell me what it is. Cheers


Keith

 

[Guest]

I have seen the term "dry brushing" mentioned a number of times in different threads. Could somebody please tell me what it is. Cheers
Keith

it's a technique to highlight raised area like cockpit. I use paintbrush and then dry the excess paint with paper towel then apply it to the model. Maybe someone more experience and better english could explain it better something like this View attachment 101261


View attachment 214284

 

[Guest]

it's a technique to highlight raised area like cockpit. I use paintbrush and then dry the excess paint with paper towel then apply it to the model. Maybe someone more experience and better english could explain it better something like this View attachment 111237

Thanks Leo, I think I have got it now. Cheers.


Keith

 

[Guest]

it's a technique to highlight raised area like cockpit. I use paintbrush and then dry the excess paint with paper towel then apply it to the model. Maybe someone more experience and better english could explain it better something like this View attachment 111237

Perfect explanation in great English Leo.


I also use a very very thin wash which gives a similar effect.


Laurie

 

[stona]

The important thing to remember when dry brushing is that your brush should have virtually no paint in it at all, hence the name. I use a short haired flat brush, pick up some paint and then wipe on some kitchen roll until it seems all the paint has been removed...it hasn't. You can always go over a surface several times to build up the desired effect. If you apply to much paint first time you are going to have to start again!


Cheers


Steve

 

[Guest]

View attachment 101281

I was unhappy with some of the primer coat on my Apollo Saturn V so I rubbed down the rough parts and painted them again, just a thin coat with a brush. However, the same thing has happened again, it's gone all wrinkly. Any ideas anyone?View attachment 214304

 

[Guest]

As it has happened in the same place ie twice I would have thought it is something on the plastic which is having an adverse effect on the paint.


Did you wipe anything on the plastic before painting it Keith. Looks like the same effect as paint remover.


To make sure on the paint scene try some on an old plastic bottle.


Laurie

 

[Guest]

As it has happened in the same place ie twice I would have thought it is something on the plastic which is having an adverse effect on the paint.
Did you wipe anything on the plastic before painting it Keith. Looks like the same effect as paint remover.


To make sure on the paint scene try some on an old plastic bottle.


Laurie

As it happens I have painted some on a plastic bottle prior to giving it a couple of coats of white gloss in preparation for testing masking tape on it .


The bottle took it fine, nice and smooth. I will rub down the wrinkly bit again on the model, give it a good clean with soapy then clear water, dab it dry and try again.


Thanks for the advice

 

[Gern]

Like Steve said, add paint to your brush then wipe 99% of it off on a cloth or tissue. As you brush over the surface of your kit, any sharp raised bits will scrape off the tiny bit of paint left on the bristles. This means only the raised edges get any paint on them and are therefore highlighted. It's particularly effective in cockpits where you won't be able to paint all the individual switches and panel edges, but they will stand out against the background colour.

 

[flyjoe180]

For example, I spray my enamels thinned anywhere from 60/40 to 40/60, depending on the individual paint

You can get major differences in consistencies within a brand's line of paints. I use Humbrol enamels and usually thin in a ratio not too far of Steve's mixture. Sometimes it's add a drop or two more thinners, sometimes a drop or two more paint depending on the colour. It really is personal preference.

 

[BarryW]

As it happens I have painted some on a plastic bottle prior to giving it a couple of coats of white gloss in preparation for testing masking tape on it .
The bottle took it fine, nice and smooth. I will rub down the wrinkly bit again on the model, give it a good clean with soapy then clear water, dab it dry and try again.


Thanks for the advice

May I suggest, if you have some, wiping it down with some ipa after the wash just as a belt and braces while also using some disposable plastic gloves to prevent finger grease contaminating the surface.

 

[Guest]

May I suggest, if you have some, wiping it down with some ipa after the wash just as a belt and braces while also using some disposable plastic gloves to prevent finger grease contaminating the surface.

Thanks for that Barry.

 

[Guest]

As it has happened in the same place ie twice I would have thought it is something on the plastic which is having an adverse effect on the paint.
Did you wipe anything on the plastic before painting it Keith. Looks like the same effect as paint remover.


To make sure on the paint scene try some on an old plastic bottle.


Laurie

Okay, I rubbed down the wrinkles until smooth as a baby's bum, down to bare plastic in this case, gave it a good clean and re-primed. Success! Thanks again Laurie, I am putting you on speed dial!