discussion Advice needed re: window frames

[Johnners]

I'm making my first ever building and would appreciate some advice with regards to window frames. I've made the walls from 2mm thick Benecreat Foam board, which has worked quite well, however, when I tried to cut out a window frame (of the standard white double glazing variety), I found the foam board flexed too much as I was cutting and I struggled to get straight edges. I'm wondering if 0.5mm ABS Styrene sheet would be more rigid, or would I be better using 1mm/2mm/3mm styrene strips and building the frames rather than cutting them out. I'm working in 1/50 scale and would be very grateful for any thoughts and/or other suggestions.

 

[pjgtech]

Could try thin balsa strips? or plasticard?

 

[kacitgirl]

Could try thin balsa strips? or plasticard?

plasticard would be my bet

 

[Tim Marlow]

40 thou (1mm) plastic card would be my go to as well. Door and window frames could be easy to make from plastic strip rather than sheet as well though. If you do go that way, evergreen precut strip is light years better than slaters, it’s square edged for a start…. Glazing bars are a bit harder. You can get them as etched metal from several suppliers, but size is always an issue. I’ve made them from strip before myself. I used to draw out the window on paper, then place a piece of picture frame glass over the drawing and build the window on the glass. That way the window can be carefully removed afterwards and put into the building. Building the window straight on the paper doesn’t work, for obvious reasons….but I did have to learn the hard way.

 

[Johnners]

Thank you guys. I favour cutting the frames out of sheet but, as you will see from my trial effort, the foam board flexed too much as I was cutting. Is the Plasticard rigid enough for me to get straight edges? Also, given the scale I am working with I was thinking of 0.5mm sheets, but I assume that will be harder to cut accurately than 1mm. Any thoughts?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hi bud. Cutting 1 mm or 0.5 mm is pretty much the same thing, though 1 mm will need more passes with the knife to break through. Plasticard is easily rigid enough to allow you to cut cleanly and with straight edges, though I would ensure I used a new blade to maximise accuracy. I would also cut out the internal apertures before trimming the window to final size. This will maximise strength and make it much easier to handle.

The reason I said to use 1 mm is because at 1/50 scale 0.5 mm deep windows will only give you the effect of a 25 mm deep window frame. That’s one inch in old money, and quite shallow for a real frame. Probably great for window bars though. I would look at real windows of the type you are trying to replicate, and try to replicate the various layers you see. I would also test an off cut of the foam board with plastic cement to make sure it doesn’t melt. If it does, you will have to glue your windows in with PVA. Not an issue, but better to be forewarned.

 

[Johnners]

This is great information Tim, thank you. I'd based 0.5mm on a reasonable thickness for the window sill. With 2mm thick walls I was thinking of cutting a 3mm wide strip of 0.5 to give me a window sill that scaled up to 150mm deep by 25mm thick. I take your point about the depth of the window frame though, so maybe I need some of each. Either way, it seems like the way to go.

I'd also wondered about cutting out the internal apertures first and it's great that you've suggested that as it gives me more confidence in what I'm doing.

When it comes to gluing, I will be using High viscosity superglue for the foam walls. Will this not be suitable for the Plasticard? As you can tell, I'm in virgin territory here.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Superglue will be fine for the plasticard, though it can leave a residue that may need cleaning up. I would also check the foam board is compatible with it because it can melt really quickly. I haven’t used foam board that much, but have always used PVA as it’s pretty forgiving. I have held the parts in place with pins or Tamiya tape until they set. For what you are doing, it will probably be easier to make most of the windows, doors etc and glue them in place while the walls are flat. Once you’ve done this you can assemble the box structure of the building. Again, it makes handling and access easier and minimises the risk of damage. Obviously, if you are putting on any fragile sticky out bits, put them on after assembling the box. Think of it as building a kit, albeit one where you have to make all the parts yourself first

 

[Johnners]

Thank for the information about the glue. and I'll be sure to check what I use on scrap pieces first.

You're building my confidence more and more as I'd planned to fit the doors and windows and complete much of the brickwork painting with all the sections lying flat. My biggest concern with this build is the roof, but it will just have to wait until I've got the main structure assembled.

You're a star, thank you.

 

[Johnners]

Sorry if I'm overthinking this but I need help with buying suitable Plasticard. It seems Plasticard is a generic term for many different plastic sheets. I purchased some sheets some days ago and have been having a lot of trouble cutting them. One thing I noticed is that they don't "score and snap" like Plasticard is supposed to. Digging into it deeper I found that what I've been sent is a Polypropylene product and not a Polystyrene one. That also explains why I'm having trouble gluing the parts together. Hunting on the 'net caused me to think that I need something made from HIPS polystyrene, however, most products I'm finding are made of ABS. I don't want to keep buying this stuff on a "see how it works" basis so I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction. Will ABS polystyrene sheets do the same job as HIPS ones and is there any significant advantage of one over the other? Thanks

 

[pjgtech]

Sorry if I'm overthinking this but I need help with buying suitable Plasticard. It seems Plasticard is a generic term for many different plastic sheets. I purchased some sheets some days ago and have been having a lot of trouble cutting them. One thing I noticed is that they don't "score and snap" like Plasticard is supposed to. Digging into it deeper I found that what I've been sent is a Polypropylene product and not a Polystyrene one. That also explains why I'm having trouble gluing the parts together. Hunting on the 'net caused me to think that I need something made from HIPS polystyrene, however, most products I'm finding are made of ABS. I don't want to keep buying this stuff on a "see how it works" basis so I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction. Will ABS polystyrene sheets do the same job as HIPS ones and is there any significant advantage of one over the other? Thanks

Google AI seems to think that most scale model kits are made from ABS polystyrene, not HIPS polystyrene.
It says:
The vast majority of plastic scale model kits are made from High Impact Polystyrene (HIPS), not ABS. HIPS is the industry standard for injection-molded kits because it is easy to cut, sand, and bonds instantly with standard liquid plastic cement.

It also says:
ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) is a stronger, more rigid, and heat-resistant thermoplastic compared to HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene), which is more flexible, cheaper, and easier to thermoform. ABS is ideal for durable, high-wear applications, while HIPS is preferred for lower-cost, disposable, or food-safe packaging applications.

No idea if its correct, but sounds reasonable to me....

 

[Tim Marlow]

Best manufacturers for plastic card in the UK are Evergreen or Slaters. John in the scale model shop stocks Evergreen plastic sheet. Slaters can be bought here.

Slater's Plastikard - PLAIN PLASTIKARD - Standard Size Sheets

We specialise in fine scale model railway kits and accessories in a number of different scales

www.slatersplastikard.com

Both are excellent, can be glued with liquid polystyrene cement, and are very good products. I’ve used them for about forty years on and off……

The ABS stuff is much harder to cut cleanly, and needs something like polystruct or Butanone to glue it. They are much more aggressive solvents than the ones we usually use.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Link to SMS.

Sheet Archives

Browse Sheet at Scale Model Shop, including kits, paints, tools and modelling accessories from a UK specialist retailer.

www.scalemodelshop.co.uk

Not used DSPAIE or AK stuff so can’t comment on it….

 

[Johnners]

Thank you both very much - I'm very grateful for your help.

 

[Tim Marlow]

No worries Johnners. When I started, slaters was all you could get . I believe they used to buy 8 by 4 sheets of a product called Bextrene and clip it up, package it, and sell it to modellers. I bought a big bundle of offcuts at a show once and used it for ages. These days I prefer Evergreen because it’s more consistent, even if a bit dearer. If you need something bigger than A4 in size, slaters may sell bigger sheets. They used to, but I don’t know if they do.

 

[Johnners]

To be honest, I'm finding this whole shopping experience extremely confusing. I've found sites that say ABS is better for what I'm doing, and others that say I need HIPS. Others suggest Polypropylene and some Polystyrene. Plasticard seems to be a generic term and I've found ABS Plasticard and Styrene Plasticard. When I found "ABS plastic styrene" my head nearly exploded. And it seems each variant needs different glue, which is another minefield. I wish I'd got a local Model Shop I could pop into to look at what I'm buying.

I'll check out the Slaters and Evergreen links and get one of those. Thanks again.

 

[pjgtech]

I think Hobbycraft do the plasticard sheets to? as well as many other scale model bits of gear, never thought of them when I first got back into it, but now pop into my local one every now and again and you can get some good bargains, including some kits....

 

[Tim Marlow]

Go evergreen. You won’t be disappointed.