discussion Back to the bench .....

[Gern]

Hi guys. Looks like I'll be back at my workbench sooner than I expected.

One of my students asked about my religious beliefs the other day, and I answered him. Turns out that, while I am entitled to my beliefs, I'm not allowed to tell anyone what they are so I've been sacked.

Oh well. I can survive quite nicely on my pension so not to worry.

No idea what I'll be dragging from the stash, and as I'm probably the world's slowest builder, don't get all excited and hold your breath waiting!

 

[stillp]

And we thought our constitution allowed free speech!

Outraged of Warwickshire

 

[BarryW]

Sorry to hear that, political correctness is ruining education having destroyed comedy. Their loss.... I look forward to your builds.....

 

[yak face]

Thats a total farce dave , as barry says -their loss . Im sure something will turn up ( if you want something that is) in the meantime youve got plenty to choose from in the stash , plus youll have the under a fiver cosford build to occupy you in a few weeks !!! Cheers tony

 

[Peter Gillson]

Hi Dave

That's dreadful. Have you spoken to your union? Inrealise that Guernsey laws are different from UK laws but they tend to be based on UK legislation, and over here there is a long process involved in sacking anybodycorrectly. Employers fall down on getting the process wrong as much as not having a valid reason.

You may not get you job back but a wrongful dismissal could entitle you to compensation - here a wrongful dismissal can result in compensation of up to 6 months salary.

Peter

 

[stillp]

I once asked my company's HR department (only half in jest) what I would have to do to get instant dismissal, and they answered that instant dismissal was no longer allowed. Instant suspension is - I don't know if that is with or without pay.

Pete

 

[scottie3158]

All I can say is the lunatics are running the asylum that was once Great Britain

 

[Peter Gillson]

Pete

Over here it would be with pay so I suspect it would be the same for you.

Even if you saw an employee taking cash out of the till you could not instantly dismiss them, the process would be along the lines of:

- arranging a meeting with them and their union rep / fellow employee to explain what the issue is, what you, as the employer, are going to do and suspending them on full pay,

• following this up with a letter explaining it, including that they will have a right of appeal,with a copy of the company's disciplinary proceedure.
• conducting an investigation
• arranging another meeting to explain the findings of the investigation and the course of action will be.
• the action should be comensurate with the transgression and only for the most serious should dismissal be the result, other options such as transferring to another department should be tried first.

Even of the employee is clearly in the wrong, the dismissal can be classed as unfair if the process is not followed. I remember when the law first came in my business made the mistake of not explicity including in the letter that the employee had a right to appeal and that was enough for it to be classed as an unfair dismissal.

Since there are no costs to an employee in making an unfair dismissal claim it is worth looking into if you feel you have been treated badly.

Peter

 

[Jim R]

Somehow we have allowed our regulations, rules, justice and laws become totally removed from fairness and common sense. As Scottie said the lunatics are running the asylum that is Great Britain.
At least you'll have more time to share the hobby with the rest of us.
It is just very sad. I worry about what kind of world my two year old granddaughter will grow up in.
Jim

 

[PaulTRose]

so let me get this right.............someone asks your beliefs...........you tell them..........they run off crying about it to get you the sack?

what a rediculous sate of affairs

so is it a 'religion neutral' work environment?,.......so no one knows so no one can take offence?.........so what happens if you are wearing a religious symbol like a cross or hijab which gives the game away?

theres a point.......were you told of this rule when you were took on? if not how were you to know?

 

[Gern]

Thanks for your support guys - much appreciated.

I'm not unduly concerned at the moment as I can quite happily survive without the work. However, I am hoping it's just a coincidence that my timesheets for last week haven't been approved yet - meaning I won't get paid. I'll find out tomorrow.

 

[Guest]

so let me get this right.............someone asks your beliefs...........you tell them..........they run off crying about it to get you the sack?

Though I wasn’t there, I suspect the running off crying bit didn’t happen and likely wouldn’t need to happen. Chances are that it would be sufficient that this “incident” happened at all, regardless of whether anyone got upset about it. This is what you get when SJWs have a say in (or their opinions are weighed heavily when making) rules and regulations, basically.

what a rediculous sate of affairs

Agreed.

 

[Gern]

Though I wasn’t there, I suspect the running off crying bit didn’t happen and likely wouldn’t need to happen. Chances are that it would be sufficient that this “incident” happened at all, regardless of whether anyone got upset about it. This is what you get when SJWs have a say in (or their opinions are weighed heavily when making) rules and regulations, basically.


Agreed.

Ooops! Was going to ask what SJW meant but found it on the 'net. Hence the blank post.

 

[Guest]

Social Justice Warrior — the kinds of people who perceive injustice everywhere and feel compelled to do shout something about it on social media, and anyone who doesn’t agree there is a problem is obviously part of it.

 

[colin m]

Social Justice Warrior

These people must be closely related to 'Keyboard warriors'. Or, are they in fact, the same ???

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

We are all entitled to free speech, unless its not what people want to hear then your branded with whatever sticker they label you with. Everyday I am force fed things on the TV, films, radio that I personally do not accept or want to hear. Yet if I voice my opinion its me that's in the wrong and facing the consequences.

 

[Guest]

Snowflakes I believe is the term my daughter's use.
Regardless of that you cannot be fired like that with out a full meeting of all parties , ie your union and the personal Dept.
I wish you well Dave, by the sounds of it your better off out of it ..
John

 

[Tim Marlow]

Hate to disagree with some of this, but we do not (rightly) have true free speech in the UK, and probably not in all societies across the globe. We think we have, but we really don’t.
If we did, then rabid right and left wing views would be allowed to be freely expressed, such as holocaust denial, racism, overt misogyny, and other truly ugly viewpoints aimed at generating segregation and radicalisation. “Free” speech is limited to that which is socially acceptable in general use and allowed within the current legislative framework.
That aside, Dave’s case seems extreme and probably hinges on the contents of the staff code of conduct given at induction.

Snowflake is an abusive term I personally detest, by the way John. It’s use is generally aimed at someone with a different opinion to the abuser, and implies that the abused person cannot cope with the alternative viewpoint enunciated by the abuser. However, it is really a classic use of political doublespeak because the person unable to deal with the different opinion is the abuser themselves. If they could deal with the difference they would refute the argument rather than simply insult the speaker.
Those that use the term are basically accusing someone of what they cannot do themselves.
Anyway, enough politics for one day....let’s watch the news.....

 

[Guest]

Snowflakes I believe is the term my daughter's use.

That comes from the term “special snowflake”, as in, “you think you’re some kind of special snowflake” — implying that the subject/target thinks he or she is different but is actually (in the speaker’s opinion) just the same as everyone else.

Hate to disagree with some of this, but we do not (rightly) have true free speech in the UK, and probably not in all societies across the globe. We think we have, but we really don’t.

The USA comes closer than anywhere in Europe, I think, but I must say that I prefer almost-but-not-quite-100%-free speech for reasons of protecting society itself from the kinds of people with extreme ideas who would like to use exactly that freedom to undermine it.

 

[Gern]

Some interesting ideas here guys, but I do not want my initial post to be the cause of any disagreements or arguments on such a tricky topic. Would I be considered to be curtailing your right to free speech if I suggested that maybe this isn't the right place, and there are other more suitable forums where this topic could be discussed?