discussion Bad Taste? Morality?

[Guest]

War is death. Lets not get Our hobby dragged into the cancel culture.

We have had and will hopefully continue to have some incredible diorama on here. Some of which have truly shown how war is.
Not every one wants to be so graphic in their depictions which is fair enough.

Oh! Please No! not the cancel culture, I am now in the process of working out, do I put the nylons on before the suspender belt, how do you fasten the bra behind your back and do I squat, stand or just cock a leg and hope I hit the pot......

 

[PaulTRose]

knew i had seen it somewhere

 

[Guest]

knew i had seen it somewhere

Oh those were the days, death and destruction at every turn and even in the comics and war books, and there was me just an innocent 11 years old..... My what would the wokes say today after they recovered from their coronairies.....

 

[langy71]

Dave,

After all is said, it's your build and you portray it as you want to,

We all build war machines whist subconsciously hiding the plain and pure fact that during any kind of war people will die....these machines were built to ensure that...

My current 'build' is of an israeli m6B with a 'child/ youth' throwing a rock at it, (think of the classic David Versus Goliath images), after i'd started building I then discovered that the boy I was basing the figure on was actually shot and killed doing the same thing my dio depicts a few days after the image was photographed,
this hasn't stopped me completing the dio... I carried on building as a testament and celebration to the spirit of the boy and his conviction to doing all he could to 'scare' away the aggressors..

So you carry on as you want to ... History doesn't always have a happy ending and these things must be allowed to told as well..
besides ... if we never learn the mistakes from our history we are fated to repeat them ..

 

[rtfoe]

I have a funny feeling that Robert Capa's film was deliberately destroyed to keep it from the publics eye as to the horrors on Omaha. It could have been worse than Spielberg's piece.
Haven't done a dio depicting death so far but have been wanting to do a scene of a Marine checking his buddy lying face down on Iwo but has to move on. Not easy, that's why am still contemplating.

Cheers,
Richard.

 

[AlanG]

Personally, it's all a big bunch of 'Meh'. It's up to the person creating the diorama/artwork on how they feel about the brutal realities of warfare. I don't hear this sort of debate over past masterpieces by popular artists. Although the cancel culture i am sure will get this in their sights one day.

If you don't want to depict it, then don't. If you do, do. It is your build at the end of the day and if it is a historic event then you cannot change history (no matter how much Hollywood try to).

 

[Andy the Sheep]

I think Jim's (aka Grumpa) works, which I personally admire, could represent a benchmark about this issue. Here's an example: LINK.
I think it's just a question of personal background, sensitivity and tastes; after all, our models are a form of art, a way to express not only our technical skills but also to convey to an audience our perception of the subject. We cannot try to please everyone; I build my models and dioramas my way: if they meet some consensus, I'll be more than glad, if not, I'll be just glad.

Andrea

 

[spanner570]

Interesting stuff.

In March 2021 I made a 1/144 diorama depicting a Corvette destroying a U. Boat, were I modelled the boat half out of the sea before it's final plunge.

I too thought long and hard before deciding to proceed. To me, it's not glorifying violence, I was simply trying to see if I could model the actual moment in time.....I had thought of posting an image of the build, then remembered, quite rightly, that unsolicited images on someone else's thread were verboten.

War is violent and I don't see the difference in modelling something that has the potential to kill, as opposed to showing the result of what these things can do.

I don't really care for modelling human 'Bits', but if the builder shows such stuff, that's fine. It's his or hers build.

I, for one would like to see Dave's take on the subject - Free to do what he wants with his model.


Gunter Prien - U 47

 

[Tim Marlow]

I agree with the sentiment “your model, your rules”, but also reserve the right to like or not like the final result. Personally, I don’t like gratuitous violence and am not interested in its depiction.
I too was brought up in the era of war comics and action men dolls. Absolutely loved them :thumb2: . As most of us on here, it interested me beyond the superficial pictorial level. In my case It turned me into an avid reader of military history, and that, in turn, made me pretty much a pacifist at heart.
After all, I like watching the great bike builds on here, but don’t want to see a roadside crash depicted, along with a decapitated or mutilated rider……something that happens all too frequently in the real world.
Oh, and before anyone brings out the standard Woke, Cancel culture, Snowflake, Politically correct etc type reply please remember where these terms originated. They may be in general use now, but they were originally coined by those on the extreme fringes of the political spectrum, both right and left. They were used to defend extreme views in the absence of any real supporting argument. Do you really want to align yourself with those sorts of world views.

 

[Gern]

Depicting suffering, death and destruction in whatever form - pictures, writing, film, model etc. will not change reality. They happen every minute of every hour of every day, all over the world. Sometimes as a result of deliberate actions, sometimes as accidents.

It's up to the painter/writer/modeller whether he/she wants to depict such things and it's up to the individual viewer whether he/she wants to see them - you don't HAVE to look!

 

[Lee W]

I say get on with it! Who cares what other people think, your work your decisions on how to do it. War sucks, it's violent, its bloody and gory, oh it has a swastika, oh hes had an arm blown off not even today's society can change or cancel history, that s*%t happened, the quicker people wake up to it and deal with it the better!
It same goes for Farcebook, you don't like a picture, video or someone's opinion... pull up your big boy/ girl pants and keep scrolling!

 

[mog]

Not taking sides on this one, I had 28 years of service good days and bad, But I have agree with Ian on this, we must keep our ability to express our builds as we the builder see them. Military painting have depicted the horror of battle for a long time, Nelson shot on the quarterdeck, painting by Denis Dighton, 1825 for example. A battlefield or conflict area is not PC , we go to war to kill our fellow man, Dave you build this the way you see it, hate it or love it you have no control over what others think. As the old saying goes “There are certain rules about a war, rule number 1 young men die, rule number 2 you can’t change rule number 1”

 

[Gern]

As the old saying goes “There are certain rules about a war, rule number 1 young men die, rule number 2 you can’t change rule number 1”

Was that Henry Blake?

 

[Airborne01]

In Military Illustrated Modeller this month (Issue 134) there is an excellent diorama that perfectly illustrates this paradox. It depicts a solitary concentration camp inmate embracing a GI near the entrance to the camp. It's entitled 'Freedom's Embrace' and is wonderfully executed and evocative. Worth a view!
Steve

 

[mog]

Was that Henry Blake?

yes it was used in MASH , but the saying has been around for years

 

[Gern]

I thought it sounded familiar.

 

[Tim Marlow]

In Military Illustrated Modeller this month (Issue 134) there is an excellent diorama that perfectly illustrates this paradox. It depicts a solitary concentration camp inmate embracing a GI near the entrance to the camp. It's entitled 'Freedom's Embrace' and is wonderfully executed and evocative. Worth a view!
Steve

I remember a similar themed superb dio on the old military modelling site by, I think, Simon Hammerton. It was just a single railway boxcar surrounded by the detritus of a concentration camp transport. Like all true horror it works best because it used your imagination rather than overt imagery.

 

[Tim Marlow]

yes it was used in MASH , but the saying has been around for years View attachment 465791

God I miss that program. Some episodes were perfection and just stay in the mind.
I remember the Sherman Potter quote in a similar vein….when asked which of the four wars he had served in was the worst, he just said “all of them”.

The black and white episode with character interviews by a real life war correspondent was genius!