discussion Hasegawa F-104J Starfighter

[Miko]

Been a while since I put a kit together given my domestic situation, but when needs must!

The obligatory box art and sprue shots

Some of you may have noticed my preference for research types, my avatar being that of ADTW (Air Development and Test Wing) based in Gifu air base in central Japan, it's a bit like RAE and A&AEE at Farnborough and Boscombe Down. I noticed the decal sheet has versions for the predecessors APG and APW so the choice made itself!

Also picked up a special set for older bare metal JASDF aircraft

Miko (I'm ready to go but not having the paint for US types I'm waiting for mail order to arrive)

 

[Guest]

JASDF Landing Gear White …? How does that differ from anybody else’s landing gear white, I wonder? In the label on the pot, probably

 

[Waspie]

Had a serious rollicking over a Starfighter aka Widowmaker!! A good mate and I were caught trying to remove the gun from one At Sola AB in Stavanger. We were a little socially confused due to liquid intake. Our Boss nor the Norwegian base commander didn't see the funny side either!! I mean - do they really think; 1 we could have actually achieved it and 2 - it would never have fitted on a Sea King anyway!!!

Meanwhile, I'll follow the build with great interest!!!

 

[Miko]

JASDF Landing Gear White …? How does that differ from anybody else’s landing gear white, I wonder? In the label on the pot, probably

Yeah, it's a marketing ploy I suspect, dunno how many shades of white I have, but it's too many!! Still, your average modeler is a bit of a stickler for detail with a modicum of pedantic OCD! Which isn't me at all really, provided it looks reasonably accurate it's fine! for example, when I used to build air superiority grey jets, most were Halfords primer! no one noticed.

Miko (just checked, in my paint stash of MrColor and Tamiya I have six different whites! and at least three more in Humbrol enamels, matt satin and gloss)

 

[Guest]

Had a serious rollicking over a Starfighter aka Widowmaker!!

Mostly in the Luftwaffe, though. I may have mentioned this before, but the Dutch crash rate was nowhere near that of the Germans, which a 1970s book I have on jet fighters attributes to the Germans basically having skipped the first post-war generation of jet fighters and moving straight to Mach 2+ types. It has wording to the effect of, “Look at how many accidents we had with the Meteor!”

 

[Miko]

Mostly in the Luftwaffe, though. I may have mentioned this before, but the Dutch crash rate was nowhere near that of the Germans, which a 1970s book I have on jet fighters attributes to the Germans basically having skipped the first post-war generation of jet fighters and moving straight to Mach 2+ types. It has wording to the effect of, “Look at how many accidents we had with the Meteor!”

The Germans didn't have the worst time with the F-104, I subscribe to this YouTube channel which delves a little deeper comparing aircraft destroyed, aircrew fatalities accounting for flight hours.

 

[Guest]

I just browsed through that and it seems the USA and Pakistan did slightly worse in that respect, but both only flew it a very limited amount. Let me dig up my book

Okay, Militaire straalvliegtuigen (“Military Jet Aircraft”) by Hugo Hooftman (Zwolle: La Rivière & Voorhoeve, 1970; ISBN 90 6084 223 5). On pages 68 this says, translated:

Unlike Germany, where over 120 Starfighters have crashed already, our air force flies the plane very safely. Four write-offs per year is what was counted on, but accident statistics have stayed far below that.

and on page 77 (there are eight pages of photographs between 68 and 77, so this is really just a few paragraphs later):

The accidents with the Starfighter in Germany have been widely published, and understandably so. We should realise, however, that the Luftwaffe has an enormous number of Starfighters in service. If it loses 120 of the ca. 900 that are in service, that’s a percentage of 8%. [sic] If the Netherlands loses seven of its 138, that’s 5%. Percentages that aren’t that far apart… Though it remains a fact that the German F-104 pilots have a lot fewer flying hours than their Dutch colleagues and also have less experience in jets. They skipped the Meteor age, so to speak, and just think of the accidents we had in that…

 

[vizenz]

Hello,
I don't know what status the pilots had in other countries, but here in Germany there was also the problem that we were an army made up of conscripts and temporary volunteers. Most pilots at the time were unable to become professional soldiers. In order to cover the enormous need for pilots, it was possible to become a jet aircraft pilot as a non-commissioned officer SaZ 8 (voluntary commitment period of 8 years)! For example, I know someone who flew Sabre for 6 years and was then no longer retrained on Starfighter because his service time was not extended.
What I mean to say is that the Bundeswehr's enlistment system at that time was very unfavorable for producing experienced pilots. Very often when they reached a good level of experience they were issued and replaced with new ones. This may also play a role in the loss rate in these early years.

 

[minitnkr]

Also known as the "Zipper" in the US they were so fast, in a firing range accident one was hit w/its' own bullets. Because of the stubby wings (high wing load) maneuvers slower than 450mph required attention. These were mach2+ interceptors built to get from takeoff to 30,000' in the shortest time possible. Design compromises were made. Remember, this is in 1956! Long before digital computer assist. Pilots really flew these planes.

 

[Andy the Sheep]

I'll follow your build with interest, Miko.
F104 in all its versions is a sort of myth in Italian Air Force and, above all, among many Italian modellers.
Pilots really flew those planes, as Paul rightly stated, even in CAS role among the mountains - the G version was dedicated to ground attack when the S version was introduced - and they usually heavily relied on AB to avoid the peaks after they released their weapons .

 

[Guest]

heavily relied on AB

Dutch commentary, but probably the most impressive use of afterburner ever:

 

[minitnkr]

Impressive. Could accelerate from 450mph cruise to breaking sound barrier in seconds.

 

[Miko]

Meanwhile back at the build. . .


I'm a bit fed up waiting for paint to be delivered so I started with what I could

I've ordered Gunze H74 which relates to Sky Type S' or very similar, seems a strange colour for inside a jet pipe?
My trusty small collection of the increasingly rare Humbrol Authentics came in here. . .

Assembling the fuselage components is straightforward with a good fit, I can't close up the cockpit without H80 for it's interior.
Yes yes I know it's just a mid grey and no one will see or notice! but, I have H80 on the way so I'm determined to use it! Otherwise I'm not sure where I'll use it ever again? Same with the inbound H74! This kit requires eighteen colours, some of which are a tiny dot! What price realism eh? as my old dad used to say ' if a jobs worth doing. . . . '

Standing idle. . .

I'll put together what I can then go sit my the front door and wait for my paint delivery!

Miko (getting into the swing of things)

 

[colin m]

Waiting for a delivery. I feel your pain. I actually ran out of models once. I remember waiting for postie and my PR Spitfire. Anyway, the 104. A great looking aircraft. One I would like to build, but just haven't got around to doing it. So,I'll watch you builds yours instead.

 

[Miko]

Waiting for a delivery. I feel your pain. I actually ran out of models once.

Run out of models? I can't say I've ever done that since I was a teen!

Anyway, the 104. A great looking aircraft. One I would like to build, but just haven't got around to doing it. So,I'll watch you builds yours instead.

I can't think I've built a F-104 before? and as my regular research goes I find as much info including YouTube vids to totally immerse myself in the subject!

Miko ('method' modeler! Ha!)

 

[Miko]

It's here!! Yaayy!!

Given recent posts regarding obtrusive messages in build threads I'm not concerned by the recent really quite interesting thread drift but please don't post a gallery of professionally built immaculate competition standard F-104, my fragile ego might collapse! Ha!

Miko (to the bench!)

 

[Miko]

This thing goes together really well, the landing gear is a bit fiddly but really well engineered.

No filler just yet! I forgot to take progress piccies!

Miko (firing up the compressor!)

 

[minitnkr]

Was always amazed this thing flew with such stubby little wings...kinda like TRex forearms.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Just had a look through and a lot of the images seem to have disappeared? Image posting site issue?

 

[Miko]

Just had a look through and a lot of the images seem to have disappeared? Image posting site issue?

What? who? where? Images?

Miko (easily confused)