discussion spanner's 1/72 Hurricane and Dornier DO-17-A coming together

[Steve-the-Duck]

the image Chris is referring to occurs about two thirds of the way in....

"Thanks awfully, old chap." That is indeed the image I remembered - so that's MOST of the wings outboard of the engines, AFTER the tail was knocked off, I guess

 

[stona]

Once the tail was knocked off in the collision the rest of the aircraft entered a violent spin, which tore off the wings outboard of the engines.

Various parts came down in different places but the biggest part, what remained of the fuselage centre section and engines, came down on James Walker's clock and gift shop at the front of Victoria station, causing a fire. Other parts fell over a wide area bounded by Putney on one side and the Horticultural Hall on the other. The gunner and his part of the aircraft landed at Fulham and the tail section ended up on the roof of a house in Vauxhall Bridge Road.

Three of the crew managed to bale out. The wireless operator came down in Sydenham Wells Park, the flight engineer in Dulwich and the badly wounded pilot in Kennington, where he was viciously attacked (he died of his wounds the next day).

 

[spanner570]

Steve.
Question re. the elevator and rudder control thingies....

Rods or cables/wires?

Thanks.
Ron

 

[KarlW]

Probably cables other those distances, to bell cranks, then rods.

 

[spanner570]

No offence Karl, and thanks for your post, but I need to know for definite, as I'm having no luck searching for the answer.

Thanks again. I appreciate your input.

Ron

 

[KarlW]

No offence taken, just comparing to what I know and applying some sense, it's easier to maintain cables than rods. Though it could of been a hydraulic system. Which at scale would look similar to cables.

 

[stona]

Steve.
Question re. the elevator and rudder control thingies....

Rods or cables/wires?

Thanks.
Ron

Bizarrely I happen to have the parts list (ersatzteil-liste) for the Do 17....somewhere. It may have an illustration of the control circuits somewhere, usually before pages of parts, down to the last washer!

I knew it would come in handy if ever I fancied knocking up a Do 17 in my back garden

I'll be back.

 

[spanner570]

Steve, please don't ask me to make, and fit washers!...... :fearful: :worried:


On to the tail section.
With the first attempt I filed a 2mm ring around the plastic section to flush fit a small cylinder of kitchen foil.



I then realised that leaving the plastic intact, and even with a little ring of foil glued in, would leave me with little room for any serious wrecking of the aluminium skin at the sheering off point on the tail end of the aircraft... If I had added a longer tube of foil, the aircraft would then be far too long! :upside:

So I hacksawed off a chunk of the tail section back to a panel line just forward of the tail wheel.


....and glued on a cone of foil. I cut this to the correct shape and length before gluing it on. I couldn't be bothered making a correct shape template, so I just wrapped the foil around the offcut. Then cut it too shape when the glue had dried. Just try making a cone without a template and see what a cob shape you get and you'll see what I mean!

This was taken before I cut it to the correct length. Scrunchability guaranteed!



Tube cut down, then I painted the camouflage, fitted a new rib and some random stringers (anodised) Thanks Steve...
You can just make out the edge of the original rib. It was too small to drag out to the edge of the foil cone, so I made a second and left the original in the tube.


Wrecking next...

Cheers.
Ron

 

[stona]

Found it straight away, all 390 pages!

So, there are a lot of complicated linkages involving everything from chains, bell cranks, push rods and 'bottle' jacks, etc., but long linkages to the tail and ailerons use 'drahtseil' which can only be translated as 'wire rope'.

One thing I did find was a fuel jettison pipe which ran from the top of the fuselage, in front of where it was chopped off, diagonally under the tailplane carry through (the bit that runs across/through the fuselage) down to an exit two or three feet (estimating) behind the tailwheel. No dimensions given, but it looks something like a 4" pipe. Who would have thought that a WW2 bomber had that capability?

 

[KarlW]

I would of thought the ability to jettinson fuel would of been around for a long time, as landing weights on these birds was often a lot lower than maximum take off weight.
Are those two ratings in your book?

 

[stona]

I would of thought the ability to jettinson fuel would of been around for a long time, as landing weights on these birds was often a lot lower than maximum take off weight.
Are those two ratings in your book?

I don't know the weights for the Do 17. I can't think of a British bomber that had such a system, I'll happily be proved wrong though.

 

[KarlW]

I don't know the weights for the Do 17. I can't think of a British bomber that had such a system, I'll happily be proved wrong though.

It was mentioned as not properly operating in a Lancaster crash causing fuel to fill the fuselage where it ignited. So must of been present.
https:tongue-out3:/www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/7088492.looking-back-lancaster-bomber-crash/

Also in a description of refurbishing a Lanc,

In September 1983, NX611 was finally purchased by Fred and Harold and, four years later, after completing an agreed total of ten years gate guardian at RAF Scampton, she was brought to East Kirkby, courtesy of the RAF. It was sixteen years since Fred had seen her at Blackpool auction.

The first moves towards restoring one of her four engines were made in 1993. Two ex RAF engineers were brought in to do the job. They began work on No3 engine. Although it had been idle for 22 years, they were confident they could bring it back to life. Accessing the spare parts was organised, the engine rotated to ensure it would still turn and the cam shaft covers removed. Both had to be replaced, although the engine cylinders were in good working order. Then the propeller was removed, stripped down and examined and - apart from having to adjust the blade settings - everything proved to be in fine order and was rebuilt.
Local contractors were brought in to check the wiring and make good where necessary. That alone was a ten-day job.
The engine's starter motor, magnetos, fuel booster pump and ignition harness were removed and checked, the fuel tank was pressurised and the fuel jettison system reset. When the throttle controls between the cockpit lever and the engine were uncovered, it was discovered that almost a third of the small control rods had to be replaced.
However after about seven hundred man hours and at a cost of �£7000 the engine was finally ready.
This work was then completed for all four engines and they now at a fully operational taxiing standard.

Also the Spitfire had a Fuel Jettison control.

 

[spanner570]

Hang on chaps.
Please don't shout at me , but I can see where this might be going......

Please don't go off on a tangent about a British bomber. I'm trying my best to build a German one...

To keep the thread tidy and on course for Buckingham Palace, perhaps p.m.'s might be a better option?

Tin hat on, Ron!

 

[KarlW]

Sorry.
Back on track Ron.
Don't forget the fuel jettison pipe, doubt the valve would be open though so no spray needed...... :tongue-out3:

 

[stona]

okey-doke

 

[spanner570]

Thanks for your understanding boys. I appreciate it.

Thanks also to Steve for the linkage solving. The reason I asked was if they were rods, they would all stick out reasonably straight from the forward break. If wire/wire rope, I would expect a bit of wobble and twist in the stuff when buffeted by the slipstream. Logical or up a gum tree?

This 'ere fuel pipe. Is it just kind'a flared in where it exits the fuse. and does it go down port or starboard on it's way past the tail wheel?

Thanks.
Ron

 

[scottie3158]

Ron,
Sorry matey been a while since i looked in. Just had a good catch up and like where it is going with some really tidy work.

 

[stona]

This 'ere fuel pipe. Is it just kind'a flared in where it exits the fuse. and does it go down port or starboard on it's way past the tail wheel?
Thanks.
Ron

There was no picture of the entire installation in the parts manual, but I found this on t'internet. It's not fantastic but shows the pipe. I've blown it up a bit, which hasn't done wonders for the definition, but you get the idea. .

 

[spanner570]

Thanks for the posts chaps.

Ah, got it! thanks Steve. For some unknown reason, I was under the impression it was outboard! Me numpty...

I tell you what, Steve. Looking at that drawing I could turn the break into a veritable scrap yard... Ping, idea!

Thanks for posting the picture.

Ron

 

[spanner570]

I've made a start on the damage to the tail section. I generally bent, twisted, squeezed and added a some extra tin foil - And then gave it the dog to chew.
The tin foil tube I fitted lent itself very well to being squished!

No fuel jettison pipe - Yet...






Also, I've had a look at the Arla Hurricane, Murfie kindly sold me, and there is no way I'm going to butcher a superb little kit such as this. So I'm going to build it 'Proper like', and hunt me, shall we say, an ordinary 1/72 Hurricane, which I can happily 'Modify' with no tears.

Cheers.
Ron