discussion Watching war films.......yikes

[stona]

Here's a link to a piece by Al Murray. Love him or hate him as a comedian he does know what he's talking about. WW2 history is a passion for him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10399462/Al-Murray-watching-war-films-with-my-Dad.html

I very much doubt that I'm the only member of this forum who reads this nodding his head in recognition.

I like the BoB film, I can just about swallow most of the substitutions, even the repetitive shots of R.C. Ju 87s exploding, but the Buchon/109s do actually ruin some sequences for me

Cheers

Steve

 

[eddiesolo]

but the Buchon/109s do actually ruin some sequences for me

I know what you mean especially the under nose bulge, but it could have been far worse, some films have good knows what planes in German markings.

Si

 

[ojays]

Putting aside all the artistic licence in the films. They at least portray to the younger generation what their ancestors had to endure, to be able to play on their X-boxes/I-pads and whatever!

That's why I let my grandsons watch them so I can explain what happened, even though many would think it wrong of me!

Gregg

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

While we are on the course of artistic licence, what about the Pattons used in the Tobruk film I also noticed while watching the Wonder Woman film the P47 changed colour schemes several times whilst approaching the 109, no wait it was 190, no it was a 109,,,, oh well you get my point

Adrian

 

[Alan 45]

The one film that gets me is the battle of the bulge great film tried to accurate but let's itself down with the tanks

Another is where eagles dare I know it's completely fictisouse but a helicopter oh come on think about it

I would love to see a remake of BoB with modern CGI effects

 

[stona]

Of course I understand why some compromises had to be made. Many of these films were made in the fifties and sixties and make a decent fist of the job. At least the horrible Buchons in the BoB film are painted to represent something like the correct colour schemes.

There is absolutely no excuse for the nonsense portrayed in CGI as for example in "Red Tails". That is a truly awful film and not just for the "who cares less" attitude taken to the aircraft markings, camouflage and much else.. At least many of those early war films told a fairly accurate story, as Al Murray says of "A Bridge Too Far". Obviously the real and remarkable story of "Red Tails" wasn't good enough for that film's producers!

Unfortunately, though I have singled it out, "Ted Tails" is just one of many more recent movies which fall into this category. They are just bad films. A war film first and foremost has to be a good film. Something like "The Cruel Sea" or "Ice Cold in Alex".

Cheers

Steve

 

[rickoshea52]

Al Murray was all over breakfast telly and 6 music with Stuart Maconie talking about this. There's only so much you can accurately portray in a movie but you should at least get the plot right. Probably one of the most brutal WW2 films you'll ever watch is Cross of Iron. Das Boot is another excellent film but for the lighter side of war Kelly's Heroes is yet to be equalled.

 

[stona]

I may have mentioned this before, but back in the '80s I worked in Munich at the film studio where much of "Das Boot" was filmed. That's right, Munich, not exactly by the sea. Anyway I was given a tour of the replica boat where most of the interior footage was shot by a sound man who had worked on that film (and was now working with me on an awful Franco-German film called Terminus) The set was, as you'd expect, an exact replica, even down to the plastic vegetables hung from the pipework! He told me that the actors sometimes spent 24 hours in there without coming out in an effort to appear more realistic. Most of the exterior stuff was also shot in Munich using a large tank and a 1/3 scale model U-Boat.

It took a long time for the Germans, who have a large film industry and influential cinema history, to start making films about WW2. Now that they feel able to do it they have made films like "Das Boot" and "Der Untergang" (Downfall) which are just about as good as it gets.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Guest]

I share Steves views that although the older movies had many challenges with props and lack of CGI to help them at least they tried to portray an accurate story. If they ddin't we would never have had those films to show the younger generations and for me such movies as the Battle of Britain remain a classic. Faults and all! What I really detest though are the more modern movies that seem to think they have the god given right to rewrite history, because it will make them more money. The truth of the story takes second place to the "Wow" factor or whatever other BS they are trying to generate. I haven't seen "Red Tails" but I'm sure it is along the same lines in much the same way as "Pearl Harbour" was etc.

Probably the last war movie I enjoyed was "Saving Private Ryan". I really think that movie should be compulsory for all schoolchildren at some point. I defy anyone not to cringe when the landing craft door dropped and think to themselves "They actually did that?"

I also think "Downfall" was brilliant and probably the only movie I have ever watched with subtitles and really become absorbed in it. You really cannot have Hitler ranting in any other language than German, it simply wouldn't work.

Another one that should be compulsory in schools is of course "Schindler's list".

 

[Ian M]

Talking of war films, Anyone heard whats happening with the remake of BoB. Have they started? Given up? or still arguing the toss over political correctness...

The film Thin Red Line was pretty good as well.

Ian M

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

Older movies still had really obvious mistakes in them, take the Lancaster's in The Dambusters, if you look when they are doing their runs, they have machine gun fire coming from the tips of the wings!

Modern movies do try to rewrite history , like U-571 the American's finding the Enigma machine !

Adrian

 

[Guest]

My all time, #1, hands-down favorite war movie...

Das Boot.

Low on politics, little to no direct nazi references, just a basic "are they going to make it?".

By the time the movie is over, without even realizing it, you should find yourself actually rooting for the germans to 'get back home'.

(And don't even get me started on how bad U571 is)

I loved that film so much (saw it as a kid back in 1982, didn't really "get it" at the time, saw it again about 14 years ago and "fell in love"), that I had the OST imported from Germany...

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[eddiesolo]

One of the classic goofs in BOB is when Ian McShane turns up to Robert Shaws cottage and there is a modern white bell push on the door frame...something and nothing maybe but I spotted it.

Si

 

[Dave W]

I like the Battle of Britain film despite the crap bits.The opening bits with Goering inspecting the Bombers to that fantastic 'Aces High' music are stiring stuff.I was a teenager living in Royston when the film was being made.Used to cycle the 7 miles to Duxford with my best mate to watch the B25 camera plane and the others taking off and landing.Two of my all time favourite films tha I've watched many times are '12 o'clock High ' and 'First of the few'(called ''Spitfire' in the USA).

 

[eddiesolo]

My all time, #1, hands-down favorite war movie...Das Boot.

Low on politics, little to no direct nazi references, just a basic "are they going to make it?".

By the time the movie is over, without even realizing it, you should find yourself actually rooting for the germans to 'get back home'.

(And don't even get me started on how bad U571 is)

I loved that film so much (saw it as a kid back in 1982, didn't really "get it" at the time, saw it again about 14 years ago and "fell in love"), that I had the OST imported from Germany...

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With you on that one, love the film. The reality of war and the attachment to his boat at the end when Jurgen Prochnow watches, before he dies, with sadness in his eyes as he watches his boat sink.

Si

 

[eddiesolo]

One of the good points of Saving Ryan was that they tried to get 99% correct. The Tigers are actually modified T-34's the give away is the wheels, but still a cracking job on converting. There is also a 1950's telephone on the wall in the farmhouse.

Si

 

[Guest]

Best "war era" film ..... Ice cold in Alex ......nuff said!

watched loads of war films, this is the only one i would watch again intentionally (and have done several times)

I prefer science-fiction .... its all in the imagination so there's no problems with facts being wrong.

 

[Guest]

And I won't even touch "red talis".

The big problem there is the producer himself, George Lucas.

He did it not because it would be accurate, he did it because "it would look cool". Hence my disaffection with star wars now. SW was one of my favorite SF series' . But in recent years I have become more discerning and expect a higher degree of accuracy and consistency with my film choices (star trek is starting to fall into a similar category, but i don't think will be nearly as reviled as star wars has become). I think the crack first appeared right around 'the battle of hoth' in Empire strikes back. After that, it looks like Lucas has no idea how to move the story forward, and just starts making it up as he goes along.

Nowhere is this effect more obvious than the shield generator scene in "return of the jedi". Why was it necessary for Han and Co. to go down to the forest world to 'clandestinely destroy the generator complex -through the back door, miles away, b.t.w.'?, when the alliance could easily have bombarded the installation from orbit (they brought enough capital ships). Or if you don't like that, why couldn't they have detailed a detachment of A-wings to go down and do the job, it's not like they'd be missed. (I'm really just getting started on all the errors I've been finding); as a result, I have coined a new term. "Lucasism": not because it's logical, practical or makes any kind of sense, but because it would look "cool".

 

[stona]

U 571 is an insult to the men of HMS Bulldog who famously retrieved a machine and documents from U 110 and attempted to retrieve the entire submarine. Worse, it is disrespectful to the memory of the men who died retrieving another (along with code books and settings) from U 559.

Hollywood can re-write history but I will remember Lieutenant Anthony Fasson, Able Seaman Colin Grazier.

It is a film which you can probably tell makes my blood boil.

Steve

 

[Guest]

One of the best British military films & my favourite I saw it at the Odeon Tolworth & thought at the time, as then a late teenager, it showed absolute British ingenuity stubbornness & success.

It was true to the actual event. Read both books & also the Captain was on set as the film was being produced. A great film which shows the character of the people in the actual event.

The film also uses the actual Royal Navy Ship. Also as I was about 11 years at the time 1949 it is most pertinent. It also portrays a Sunderland flying boat in the real.

The sloop, as called, looks more like today's frigate. She took damage & was stranded up a river with the Captain dead with an number of the crew also killed & many more injured

The film was a new form taken from television, Wilcox, Ambler with close ups of the actors in the film a new form present today but not then. And all in black & white.

It shows how meals were prepared it shows life on board at that time including the ship's cat. It has some humour. It shows the bosun looking after his men.

Above all it shows the Royal Navy & it's officers & ratings at it's & their best brave aggressive and with absolute courage.

Guessed may be not. HMS Amethyst attacked as said "on her lawful duties" in the Yangste river.

She escaped out of the river with a diminished crew & a replacement Captain.

On having escaped, a quite remarkable journey with out charts, the Captain, Commander Kerans signalled "Have rejoined the fleet south of Woosung ... No damage... No casualties....God save the King!"

The King replied "Spice the Mainbrace".

The film "Yangste Incident"

Laurie