discussion What makes a diorama?

[Dave Ward]

Simple enough question, when does a diorama become a diorama, as opposed to a vignette, or simply a model on a scenic base?? Does it involve having more than 'X' figures, or 'Y' models, or a base/background that may have had more effort put into it than the models? I'm sure there are definitions of dioramas for competitions, but are they artificial?
I was considering having two floaty things on a sea base - would this be considered a diorama?, or would that need some fixed components ( jetty, dry land )? - regarding this I've been looking in the stash & working out pairings so far I''ve come up with 3 - all 1/700. 1). 'O' Class destroyer & Liberty ship 2). Fletcher Class Destroyer & Escort Carrier 3). WWI SMS Koenig & torpedo boat there is a possible 4th - Japanese Depot ship & submarines alongside - but I don't seem to have any submarines in the stash & I'm not wanting to add to the stash ( famous last words )..................
Dave

 

[Airborne01]

I thought this topic was discussed at some depth in an earlier conversation with Richard (et al) Dave. Can't, for the life of me, remember the outcome though! Maybe we should all just accept common usage!
Steve

 

[The Smythe Meister]

Not really qualified to answer this as i`m by no means a top modeller....
,However,ere`s my tuppneyworth.....
I always like to add a figure,or a few,to my builds...... not so much to turn it into a "Diorama",just because i think it adds that "Certain something" to put a more realistic touch! :thumb2:
Personally,i think that whatever you add to your set up will benefit from these and some "Extras",.... If this takes the build into "Diorama" or "Vignette" territory i have no idea,:anguished:
Anyway,to me,i like to do what i do... if it qualifies for either,or none at all.... i don`t care!!

 

[minitnkr]

I've been told a diorama implies action/tells a story and could be easily captioned, where a vignette is static and captioning would not be obvious.

 

[Guest]

Think Paul has it right.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Concur with that. To me a vignette is a static portrait with a little set dressing, like a Victorian studio portrait with pot plants. On the other hand, a diorama could be taken as a film or newsreel still….

With your two floaty things example Dave I would say that if there is interaction between the main elements it’s a diorama. If one element is the main focus and the other just there to give context then I would say it’s a vignette.

 

[Niho]

Dave
For me dioramas are a moment in history I've chosen to portray from personal accounts and or photos... so that gives you how many figures etc,
More often than not i like to put the subject in it's natural environment lol Sometimes with minimal groundwork and figures.
Oh then there is the 'c' word..... composition, this is where historical representation and art entwine...
Nick

 

[Guest]

I think the distinction is that a diorama or vignette tries to show a scene (tell a story, if you will) while a scenic base just provides some surrounding terrain for the model(s). However, especially older (1970s/80s) modelling books often either make a very clear distinction between “diorama” and “scenic base” while others call both “diorama” — considering that any groundwork is a diorama.

A diorama wouldn’t need to be very involved, and I suppose that if the definition is “models on groundwork, arranged to create a scene or tell a story”, then you can turn a scenic base into a diorama with very small changes: a tank on groundwork of a road with a hedge alongside, would be a scenic base. However, add an enemy infantryman behind the hedge, aiming an antitank weapon at the vehicle, and it’s a diorama …

The difference between a diorama and a vignette is, if you ask me, that a vignette is small and typically only includes a couple of figures or similar, while a diorama is larger. I suspect the etymology of vignette as a modelling term is definition 4 of the word given at Wiktionary:

4. (by extension) A short story or anecdote that presents a scene or tableau, or paints a picture.

In the context of modelling, then, a visual short story told with a couple of models and groundwork. The dividing line between a vignette and a diorama, though, is not one you can definitively establish, IMHO.

 

[langy71]

Good question Dave,

When I throw a dio together I aim to tell a story by using multiple pieces interacting with each other,
My last build was the Merkava with a couple of soldiers walking in front of it..

or an even better example was the Tiger tank dio I did a few years ago, the crew are all rearming the Tank whilst a guy is sat on a motorbike next to it with a pig carcass in the sidecar.. on that build I aimed specifically to have the motorbike as a key focal point, with the emphasis on the rider and his cargo (telling' the crew he'd got hold of a pig for dinner...), hence the dio ended up being 'named' feeding the Tigers..

My current one will be my take on a young Palestinian boy throwing rocks at a M6 GAL Magach.. (there's a quite well known picture on the net of it), to me it tells the story of a young boy doing what he can try to make the Israeli tank go away.

Sooo.. a long story short, to me a dio tells a story, and a vignette is a snapshot of a specific moment in time.. hope this helps

 

[Tim Marlow]

I don’t think I explained myself particularly well above, so I’m having another go

Take a simple background item, like a French advertising column.

If that column was on a small base with a German soldier leaning against it then, to me, that would be a vignette. It is simply a portrait of that soldier with no narrative content.

Take that same column on the same small base, but this time combine it with a French figure. If that figure is painting FFI on a German recruitment poster pasted to the column, it becomes a diorama. There is interaction between the two elements. They combine to tell a story of resistance.

The difference, to me, is therefore narrative content. If the model, no matter how small, illustrates a narrative and tells a story, then it is a diorama. If it doesn’t, then it’s a vignette….

 

[mog]

Hi Guys guess I will toss my hat in "what makes a good Diorama " The builder telling a story , making the subject matter come alive to tell the story , doing the research , having a good time creating, not being afraid to make a mistake by adding that extra little fixture, and last but not least always build for the builder for only you truly know where your taking it. just my option a little long winded but it works for me

 

[Ian M]

Ah that old chestnut.
For the sake of the forum it was, a few years back (when the diorama section was created?), using an aircraft as a demo:
An aircraft on a hard stand or bit of grass is just a simple base.
Same with the addition of a pilot and his 'erk' or his dog. Vignette.
Add a couple of ground crew, a car/truck etc. Diorama.

This was for the sake of the forum and had nowt with the IPMS show rules...So it may well be different here than "the real-world".

 

[Airborne01]

Ah that old chestnut.
For the sake of the forum it was, a few years back (when the diorama section was created?), using an aircraft as a demo:
An aircraft on a hard stand or bit of grass is just a simple base.
Same with the addition of a pilot and his 'erk' or his dog. Vignette.
Add a couple of ground crew, a car/truck etc. Diorama.

This was for the sake of the forum and had nowt with the IPMS show rules...So it may well be different here than "the real-world".

That works for me Ian, simple and clear!
Steve

 

[mog]

Guys did I miss something here ? kind of lost me on the show rules yes I know what IPMS is , never been a fan

 

[Ian M]

Guys did I miss something here ? kind of lost me on the show rules yes I know what IPMS is , never been a fan

not really, its just that IPMS are the force behind all the model shows pretty much world wide. If you want or need an Official Judge for a contest they will 99.9999% of the time be IPMS and expect the classes on show to meet their requirements.
Here we have have the stick removed and are 'a little' more relaxed. The bit I posted befor was purely to find out where things should be posted in the forum sections.

 

[wotan]

Hi guys

Here is the rivet counter distinction.

Vignette (from french) originated as a graphic decoration of a vine around, or framing, a photograph. Or a carved architectural vine decoration on a building.

Diorama (also from french origin through Greek) literally "through what is seen" Originated with museum displays where artifacts or models were displayed in their context in attempt to give a more complete story.

Having got that out of the way I agree with Tim.

John

 

[mog]

got it, yes I have run afoul of the rules boys before , when I built the rattlesnake I was quickly reminded that only original color schemes meets the standards. Not exactly the smartest thing to tell me . I let the person in this case know I do plenty of research for all my work , however unless there paying the bills I will build anyway I see fit. However giving them the benefit of the dought , I said you find me someone with first hand knowledge of the original color scheme 1779, I would be very happy to be historical correct otherwise I really don't think the crew will mind

 

[Tim Marlow]

Having got that out of the way I agree with Tim.

John

Not something that happens very often……at least, not at home :tongue-out3:

 

[mog]

Not something that happens very often……at least, not at home :tongue-out3:

True a few folks on one of my ship builder sites , where kind of over the top with there views on the always historical correct presentation of building & showing ships , it was all good just Being a simple builder is ok by me

 

[Peter Gillson]

Hi Guys

my pennyworth is a little different, but not much.

I tend to think of the two forms in relation to size. both a vignette and a diorama can tell a story but less than 3 figures is a vignetter and more than three is a diorama. The key different between both of these and a scenic base is that they need to tell a story where as a scenic base is little more than groundwork on which a model sits.

Peter