discussion PE and Extras...To have or not to have?...That is the question.

[spanner570]

Going on from Colin and I's posts on my Me109 build thread regarding P.E. etc., I thought it a good idea to open up a discussion on that very subject.

Extras for our models. Do we need or want them, and are the models built O.O.B. regarded as somehow inferior by those who do buy extras?

I'm sure the views of you good people will make for interesting reading.

I'm sure you don't need reminding, but remember to please keep it friendly, and respect any, and all points of view - whatever camp you are in.

Let's go.....

 

[colin m]

Is PE necessary, no. But it can make a difference. I've used it quite a bit particularly in cockpits where it can really liven things up. But I draw the line at spending nearly as much on the PE as I did the kit.
A non too controversial sentence I think.

 

[Mr Bowcat]

I'm new to PE. Apart from a couple of kits that have come with a few bits of PE, I have only bought an aftermarket set once, which is on my current build.

I do think it will improve the overall look of the kit, but I don't think it's necessary (at least on what I build).

However, it does add a challenging element to the build and has forced me to learn new skills, which for me is what the hobby is about. I've found that once a kit is built it goes on a shelf to collect dust, the enjoyment for me is in the building/painting, so adding PE just prolongs that enjoyment.

 

[Guest]

I am just getting back into my plastic modelling after a bit of a lay off and i have always been a hoarder and avid collector of etch - put aside for that day i have so much time on my hands i can start building.

What has surprised me is the price of Eduard etch. Some of the big ed sets are £60, 70 and touching £80. Has anyone else noticed what to me looks like a massive price increase?

The result will (for me) mean i will have to think twice in the future but it will also curtail my stashing tendancies somewhat. It will probable mean that when i do get around to some of the models the etch bits will no longer be available

 

[dave]

To sit firmly on the fence, I think it depends on the scale, the model and visibility.

You see some absolutely fantastic OOB builds on the internet and some absolute pigs with tons of aftermarket.

There is no doubt that photoetch can enhance a model in a fantastic way. In particular pre-painted photoetch instrument panels look great, however some pieces will never be seen, for instance foot straps on pedals in a fighter cockpit and can probably be considered unnecessary.
They also allow a much more accurate representation of thin parts that cannot be replicated in plastic due to limitations of the material and molding processes.

There is also the convenience factor, i can scratch build seatbelts for 1/72nd and 1/48th scale WWII aircraft but it is quicker and easier to use photoetch.

To widen the scope there are also Brass and Resin aftermarket parts, which either look better, add detail or replace parts that were incorrect on the original kit.

Photoetch can be expensive and somtimes the aftermarket can double or treble the price of the kit, but that is an individual choice.

I like the Eduard Profipacks, you get a quantity of photoetch, primarily the cockpit and the kits are reasonably priced. However, even with these there are additional photo-etch sets available and I tend not to bother with these.¨

At the end of the day it is a personal choice.

To misquote, "ok i do a bit of photoetch, but i can give it up anytime"

 

[Guest]

My comment will be more a"vague sensation" than a solid opinion....

Thought when a modeller think: "I want to build a super model..."seems it's necessary, for most of us, to include P.E and other stuff on the kit....
But not really necessary, isn't it...?


Personally I usually build without P.E!! Only if the kit contents them

 

[Dave W]

I use PE seat belts and instrument panels as i think they really add to a build.

 

[Gern]

PE certainly has its uses, but it can be overdone.

Why use it to create a solid box shape such as a toolbox unless you can model it with the lid open? Any solid shape is surely easier and more accurate in plastic. (If you want to add hinges or hatches to a box shape which can't be done in a plastic mould that's a good use for PE).

Similarly, how many PE sets contain parts that cannot be seen on the finished kit, or are so microscopic that they become virtually impossible to use or have attachment points so small that the parts fall off if you look at them cross-eyed?

Finally, with moulding techniques as they are today, just how much extra detail do you need? Some of the modern kits have truly amazing detail OOB so why spend a fortune on extras? Some of the extra details that it provides would probably not be noticed by anyone other than an expert on the subject.

 

[Dave W]

PE certainly has its uses, but it can be overdone.

Why use it to create a solid box shape such as a toolbox unless you can model it with the lid open? Any solid shape is surely easier and more accurate in plastic. (If you want to add hinges or hatches to a box shape which can't be done in a plastic mould that's a good use for PE).

Similarly, how many PE sets contain parts that cannot be seen on the finished kit, or are so microscopic that they become virtually impossible to use or have attachment points so small that the parts fall off if you look at them cross-eyed?

Finally, with moulding techniques as they are today, just how much extra detail do you need? Some of the modern kits have truly amazing detail OOB so why spend a fortune on extras? Some of the extra details that it provides would probably not be noticed by anyone other than an expert on the subject.

I'm building the Airfix 1/24 Typhoon. Everything you need is included in the kit and all molded in plastic. Separate seat belts in plastic are also included.A first in a kit to my knowledge.Even the wiring in the engine compartment is there. In fact, I haven't bought any after market for the kit as in my opinion it doesn't need it. Yet there is a lot of after market stuff out there for this kit.

 

[colin m]

I'm building the Airfix 1/24 Typhoon. Everything you need is included in the kit and all molded in plastic. Separate seat belts in plastic are also included.A first in a kit to my knowledge.Even the wiring in the engine compartment is there. In fact, I haven't bought any after market for the kit as in my opinion it doesn't need it. Yet there is a lot of after market stuff out there for this kit.

I think you've got scale on your side there Dave. I don't think you could mould seatbelts in 1:72 (or maybe even 1:48) without them being very delicate.

 

[Guest]

I use Eduard PE (Including BIG ED), Brassin and Aires resin along with turned metal parts if my budget allows me.
I tend to like to super detail my models, and have never really had any problems with it either.
Just my opinion
John

 

[Gern]

Yet there is a lot of after market stuff out there for this kit.

Have you noticed that the more expensive a kit gets, the more aftermarket bits are available? Strange that. You'd think the cheap kits would need aftermarket more 'cos the expensive ones are supposed to be more accurate and with better details.

 

[Dave W]

View attachment 287302

Have you noticed that the more expensive a kit gets, the more aftermarket bits are available? Strange that. You'd think the cheap kits would need aftermarket more 'cos the expensive ones are supposed to be more accurate and with better details.

There's a detail set for the big Typhoon that costs £119!.

 

[Guest]

For me Ron, if it's an old kit and the PE is a good price (and you can get PE for said kit) then i would get it. Like Dave (Gern) has said "PE certainly has its uses, but it can be overdone" and i agree, built a Jagdpanther end of last year and it got the full works but i hate it because i've gone overboard with brass.

After building the Revell Kenworth i've found sometimes all a kit needs is a little TLC, some styrene sheets and a little time to get it how you want it.

Have fun, John.

 

[col68]

I'm with john I'll use it if its in the box or if I think the kit will benefit from a bit of p.e.
Personally I try to make the part myself if I can.

 

[Guest]

Ive only ever used extra PE seat belts, which I have like a 100 spare ones. Other than this the only PE i have used is part of a kit.
I currently dont like to use extras, and prefer to build OOB. Maybe later in my modeling ventures I might dwell into the world of extras. For now I believe that mastering the basics is very important, and I feel building all my kits OOB is the most cost effective way to achieve this outcome.

 

[Tom Rigg]

Some kits absolutely have to have PE.
Anyone ever tried scratching 1/350 (or 1/700) railings and radar equipment on a ship?
But, to be fair, it can get a little OTT and expensive. £30-40 quid on AM bits? That equates to another model for me to build.
Tom

 

[BarryW]

Speaking of aftermarket more generally, not just p.e. but including resin, brass and soft metal parts as well, there is a place for this but it can be very much over-the-top. You see a lot of people on-line detailing with aftermarket parts that will never be seen. In many cases I cannot see the difference between a kit with p.e. and one built out of the box....

I will use aftermarket for the following:
Seatbelts, even when included in a kit they are usually pretty poor compared to the aftermarket options.
Decals/masks - increasingly I prefer to paint markings onto aircraft wherever possible using masks as it looks so much better. There are often much better scheme options via aftermarket sets. Canopy masks as well.
To strengthen undercarriage using metal part replacements.
Resin wheels sometimes to replace vinyl ones
To improve the appearance of a highly visible part where really needed, or to correct a shape
To convert a to a different mark of the subject
To provide 'store options' not available with the kit
Replace broken or lost parts where a/m is available.

What I will not purchase sets for are to add detail to interiors as it can rarely been seen. Neither will I buy these exterior sets as only too often you cannot really see any significant difference, if any at all, after the model has been painted.

With my next build, a Spitfire VIII I am using more aftermarket than I have ever used on a kit before. As this is my third Tammy Spit build I wanted to vary the build a little. Even so I have been selective:

• Seatbelts - I have two aftermarket options a fabric set purchased a while back plus a Eduard Steel set. I will try the fabric first.....
  
• Resin tyres - the vinyl kit ones are poor but also I wanted treaded tyres for a Far East aircraft
• Brass cannon - I just wanted to see what difference these would make, it was an impulse buy and I am not sure that they will be worth it.
• Resin 'pit door - This is highly visible and the kit part is a weakness here. I used one on my Mk IX
• Metal u/c legs - These were recommended as worthwhile in a magazine. I am not sure but got them nevertheless
• Resin seat, another magazine recommendation and this one looks worthwhile, we shall see.
  
• A/M decals for 'Pauline' a Mk VIII based in India. I decided to paint the roundels so I also purchased a set of masks which includes canopy masks.

All in all there is a place for aftermarket parts but it is best to be selective. Sometimes you can just be 'guilding the lily' without a visible reward at the end.

 

[Guest]

Extras for our models. Do we need them, and are the models built O.O.B. regarded as somehow inferior by those who do buy extras?

Do we need them - No, otherwise clearly a kit would be 'incomplete' when purchased new.

and are the models built O.O.B. regarded as somehow inferior by those who do buy extras - Possibly, more importantly, do I care when I can make my kit look very nice OOB and take pride in replicating a finish that someone who might sneer at it achieved by replacing the kit plastic with an 'upgrade kit' that cost as much or more than the original kit? Naaah.

 

[spanner570]

Do we need them - No, otherwise clearly a kit would be 'incomplete' when purchased new.

Oops! Sorry, my bad Grammar - Obviously, I meant 'Do we want them'.........