discussion Spelling

[BarryW]

I so agree about text speak, it is just awful and I really cannot read it. I cannot help but wonder about adults who use that, l least outside of texts themselves...

Informal writing on posts and threads such as this is very different to a more formal writing context and I do think, yes myself included, that we can get over concerned about spelling (and grammar) in these posts. That said, I do draw the line at text speak...

 

[Ian M]

Hear, Hear. If it was up to me, I would ban the use of test speak on the forum. However, there are quite a few that keep tabs on us from smart phones, so that would just be unfair to them.

Whilst on the subject of spelling and smart phones, has any one been a victim of that wonderful thing called predictive spelling.

It's really fun sometimes but others, not so funny.

Ian M

 

[Guest]

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteres are at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a tatol mses and you cansitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.

 

[Ian M]

I saw that wasn't it the first and last two letters.

And just how long did it take you the write that little sentence? lol

Ian M

 

[Guest]

It took me seconds to give up reading it Ian.

Laurie

 

[Dave W]

I wouldnt worry about spelling.I for one am not bothered if someone makes a spelling mistake.Dont even use a spelling checker myself and i know i make mistakes.

 

[Gern]

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteres are at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a tatol mses and you cansitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.

Andrew, you beat me to it! I saw this some years ago and was going to use it to back up the comments that spelling on here isn't critical - but meaning is.

Incidentally, how many of you realised there are two 'spelling' mistakes (wrong lists of letters) in the first line?

Gern

 

[Guest]

I first started using computer forums or as they were called back then Group Conferencing in the mid 80s on BPs world-wide network of Vax and Unix computers and from there picked up some of the phrases that people think are modern "text speak". Things such as LOL, ROFL, BTW, IMO ISTR and so on. I have to remind myself sometimes NOT to say "BTW" when I mean By The Way.

I to use proper punctuation and spell words out when I'm sending a text (except of course for the above age-old examples). I wouldn't be seen dead using M8 or GR8 etc.

I'm one of the oldest people in my office and it still astounds me just how bad my colleagues spelling is, even with spell-checkers. There is one person who cannot do their there they're at all, he just doesn't get it so its nearly always wrong!

Bah, the youth of today...

 

[Guest]

Bah, the youth of today...

Calm down calm down Andrew.

Think it depends on the era you come from. Mine was you do not make mistakes. There was a right way & a wrong way end of discussion. Like the their & there, bought & brought. Then the adjectives tiny small object what does the tiny refer to small or object. The red pen was out you can not have two adjectives per noun.

But things have changed. Unfair really to blame the latest generation. They relied on the present generation of parents & grand parents to teach them. Also computers have changed irrevocably society. Good bad ?

Good though as non of this, this forum, would exist. At infant school we actually used sand trays to draw pictures. Mini blackboards to write on. A mini bottle of milk & a straw. No telephone, what no telephone ? My youngest grandson, on a visit, now takes over my computer & he is just coming up to five.

Laurie

 

[Gern]

Very interesting this Dave, So it seems that the scientific calculator is working backwards, 2/2 =1, 1+2 =3 But how, why ???

Sorry Colin. Misread your reply so didn't answer.

There are two ways of doing this calculation. Either do the addition first to get two plus two (equals four) then divide by two to get the answer two.

Or you could do the division first to get two divided by two (equals one) plus two to get three.

The guys have mentioned BODMAS. This is/was a mathematical convention used to define the order in which multiple calculations should be carried out. This ensured that, at least in theory, when you wrote a multiple calculation, the rule made you write it in a specific order to ensure that it gave the result you wanted. It also made sure that anyone else would use the same rule to work it out.

Nowadays though, ALL simple calculators, and the calculators on SOME mobile phones - but not all - use sequential calculations; ie they do the calculation in the order it is written. But ALL scientific calculators and SOME mobile phones - but not all - use the old BODMAS rule. All this makes life very confusing for kids trying to learn maths today.

A couple of examples I use with my students:

Example 1

You want to buy an identity bracelet. The jeweller has quoted £50 for the bracelet and £2 per letter for the engraving. If you want the name DAVID engraved, how much will the bracelet cost?

Scientific calculator (BODMAS)

Cost of brace let = £50 + £2 × 5 = £60 Correct!

Normal cheap calculator

Cost of bracelet = £50 + £2 × 5 = £260 Wrong!

Example 2

You play for a local darts team which has just come third in the league. Your team receives £200 in prize money from the league and during the year you have collected £300 from selling raffle tickets. If there are 10 members on the team, how much should each receive?

Scientific calculator (BODMAS)

Amount received = £200 + £300 ÷ 10 = £230 Wrong!

Normal cheap calculator

Amount received = £200 + £300 ÷ 10 = £50 Correct!

It doesn't matter what rule you pick - BODMAS or Sequential - as long as you follow it and use it correctly. Where everything breaks down of course is when different people use different rules.

And here was you thinking how much easier it is for kids to do maths today than it was for you! You didn't have all these new-fangled gadgets like calculators and computers to do all the work for you!

Gern

 

[Guest]

It was a long time ago Dave but I think that we were always taught to bracket the first calculation.

Laurie

 

[colin m]

Sorry Colin. Misread your reply so didn't answer.There are two ways of doing this calculation. Either do the addition first to get two plus two (equals four) then divide by two to get the answer two.

Or you could do the division first to get two divided by two (equals one) plus two to get three.

The guys have mentioned BODMAS. This is/was a mathematical convention used to define the order in which multiple calculations should be carried out. This ensured that, at least in theory, when you wrote a multiple calculation, the rule made you write it in a specific order to ensure that it gave the result you wanted. It also made sure that anyone else would use the same rule to work it out.

Nowadays though, ALL simple calculators, and the calculators on SOME mobile phones - but not all - use sequential calculations; ie they do the calculation in the order it is written. But ALL scientific calculators and SOME mobile phones - but not all - use the old BODMAS rule. All this makes life very confusing for kids trying to learn maths today.

A couple of examples I use with my students:

Example 1

You want to buy an identity bracelet. The jeweller has quoted £50 for the bracelet and £2 per letter for the engraving. If you want the name DAVID engraved, how much will the bracelet cost?

Scientific calculator (BODMAS)

Cost of brace let = £50 + £2 × 5 = £60 Correct!

Normal cheap calculator

Cost of bracelet = £50 + £2 × 5 = £260 Wrong!

Example 2

You play for a local darts team which has just come third in the league. Your team receives £200 in prize money from the league and during the year you have collected £300 from selling raffle tickets. If there are 10 members on the team, how much should each receive?

Scientific calculator (BODMAS)

Amount received = £200 + £300 ÷ 10 = £230 Wrong!

Normal cheap calculator

Amount received = £200 + £300 ÷ 10 = £50 Correct!

It doesn't matter what rule you pick - BODMAS or Sequential - as long as you follow it and use it correctly. Where everything breaks down of course is when different people use different rules.

And here was you thinking how much easier it is for kids to do maths today than it was for you! You didn't have all these new-fangled gadgets like calculators and computers to do all the work for you!

Gern

Brilliant Dave.

I asked my wife and two daughters if they have heard of BODMAS, and they have. I wonder if I was off on BODMAS day ? Anyway, thanks for the detailed explanation. Whilst I might have missed BODMAS, I do remember a lecturer drumming into us that we should always estimate the answer before calculating it, I can see he had a good point !

Colin M..

 

[Gern]

There's all sorts of ways to sort this type of problem Laurie. Alas, simply adding brackets doesn't always work. (Adding brackets to the calculations above as you suggest would give the wrong answer to example 1 and the correct answer to example 2 - whichever type of calculator you used!).

At the levels I have to teach maths, I reckon the simplest answer for my students is to do the calculations separately. That way no-one has to worry about which way round to do the calculations or which way round their calculating machine does them.

Anyway, interesting as this is to me an' thee, I can see everybody else's eyes glazing over as they fall asleep! That's a symptom I recognise quite easily as I see it in my classrooms every day!

Gern

 

[Guest]

Adding brackets will ALWAYS work- so long as you put the brackets in the right place. For the first example you put them round the lsat 2 terms ie

£50 + (£2 × 5)

for the second you put them round the first two terms

(£200 + £300) ÷ 10

its BODMAS that isn't perfect, not the brackets rule. You still need to understand the logic of the problem or question to formulate the solution and that is why you create the equation BEFORE putting it into the calculator.

I spent 10 years helping scientists write software and they were crap at it for this type of reason I've got a scientific background too (Degree in Astrophysics) but spent more time programming so learned how to convert scientific formula into code that produces the right answers and it all comes down to analysing the problem rather than applying rules.

 

[Guest]

Think Dave that my era was different from the era I was quoting from.

We that far back only had primitive adding machines. They actually added up as they went along. This type still do.

They are reasonably reliable. They are a hands off version (ie no hands needed to use) very forward in their thinking. High memory & able to reverse & redo calculations at the drop of a hat. They come with a high imagination value but some times can be slow & reluctant.

At that time we were all given a brand new working one at a very early age. In fact it was some time before I realised I actually had one. I have made fair use of it & even though now old warn & battered my Cranium Mk1 still serves me pretty well !

Present day students seemed to have virtually binned it opting for the glossy smart looking inhuman types. But they can also it seems give the wrong answer.

Matter of interest I now think that our maths teacher must have bracketed the first calculation to get us to understand the maths logic. The problem with brackets is they do work as Andrew has said. But if you rely on brackets you are going to be in a real mess if someone presents you with a mathematical problem without the brackets.

Anecdote at the time of adding machines joining the market. Client receives from us building costs. He wishes to multiply a figure by 100. Grabs this new machine. Dibbs in 1, then crashes his finger on the nought, extended hesitation, then I realised he was looking for the second nought on the pad.

Moral. He was a grocer, once, at the above time he was a multimillionaire owner a chain of supermarkets. Used the old Cranium Mk1 efficiently.

Laurie

PS hope the spelling is OK !

 

[Gern]

Apologies folks! Andrew is correct. Brackets will always work if they're in the right place. I should have made my post a little clearer by saying that automatically bracketing the first two terms won't always work.

Getting the students to understand the logic behind the mathematics can be VERY hard with the calibre of students I have. That's why I get them to split the calculations up.

Gern

 

[Ian M]

So if I have understood all this maths 'mumbo jumbo' correctly, when I work out my wages and other income I am to use a Scientific calculator. When I do my taxes and other expenses I use the normal one.

Brilliant.

Unfortunately it would seem that the tax office have got it the other way around!

Ian M