discussion Spots on the Internet (2023)

[Gern]

I had a little discussion over on Scalemates about that last year or so, and apparently, in the tool industry, newly made moulds intended to be the same as old, worn-out ones doesn’t count as “new”. “New tool” means a completely new design, it seems. So for all we know Airfix remade the moulds ten times since 1960, but on Scalemates it still counts as a reissue rather than newly tooled.

I'll bet that's news to a lot of modellers - certainly me!

So how do we tell if a kit we buy is from the original mould of 1960 or the latest replacement mould from 1980 - which should produce better castings? And does 'reissue' automatically mean replacement moulds or just new boxart/decals?

Seems the longer I stay in this hobby, the more complicated it gets. Not only do we have to look out for accuracy with shape/size, but also markings and colour schemes - I'm not even thinking about the 47 zillion arguments about which paint is closest to Dunkelgelb or Olive Drab.

Now it might be useful to know who actually makes the sprues in the box - is this an Academy mould in a Revell box or vice versa - or was the job subcontracted to a company we've never heard of? Then there's the question of where the product was made. Wasn't there an issue with quality control of some paints made in China instead of Europe a few years ago?

And now I feel doubtful about the quality of the mouldings in reissue kits. Up until now thought reissue meant new moulds - and while I'm reasonaby happy to buy a 1980s mould, I'm reluctant to buy anything from the 1960s. But how do I know what I'm getting? Even if I check build reviews, I don't know if the kit the reviewer builds comes from a newer mould and therefore may have fewer issues than the one in my box.

I know this site is a priceless resource for such information, but my head still hurts!

 

[Dave Ward]

I'll bet that's news to a lot of modellers - certainly me!

So how do we tell if a kit we buy is from the original mould of 1960 or the latest replacement mould from 1980 - which should produce better castings? And does 'reissue' automatically mean replacement moulds or just new boxart/decals?

Seems the longer I stay in this hobby, the more complicated it gets. Not only do we have to look out for accuracy with shape/size, but also markings and colour schemes - I'm not even thinking about the 47 zillion arguments about which paint is closest to Dunkelgelb or Olive Drab.

Now we also need to know who actually makes the sprues in the box - is this an Academy mould in a Revell box or vice versa - or was the job subcontracted to a company we've never heard of? Then there's the question of where the product was made. Wasn't there an issue with quality control of some paints made in China instead of Europe a few years ago?

And now I feel doubtful about the quality of the mouldings in reissue kits. Up until now thought reissue meant new moulds - and while I'm reasonaby happy to buy a 1980s mould, I'm reluctant to buy anything from the 1960s. But how do I know what I'm getting? Even if I check build reviews, I don't know if the kit the reviewer builds comes from a newer mould and therefore may have fewer issues than the one in my box.

I know this site is a priceless resource for such information, but my head still hurts!

In sales, anything is 'NEW' - it might just mean the box, with a decades old model inside - Hasegawa & Fujimi have being doing it for decades. Re-issue could just mean just blowing the dust off the mould tools & printing new instructions - or doing extensive repairs to broken moulds. Better still, add a small extra sprue & sell it as a 'Special', mix & match existing sprues to make 'new' variants. I'm afraid I'm cynical about sales & marketing! Scalemates is a pretty good archive for history of models, keeping track of who has had possession & use of some moulds must be quite a piece of detective work. I mostly feel sorry for the occasional buyer, or the parent/grandparent who buys a nice bright shiny box as a present, with a distinctly last century model inside. ' Caveat Emptor'
Dave

 

[Tim Marlow]

Not something I know much about, but it is very interesting. Does anyone know how the new moulds are made? Are they cast from a negative master or somesuch? I would think if they were cut new each time there would be slight variation over time, especially in the pre digital age. Are moulds and dies different things? Apparently the Rosebud Kitmaster mark I coach moulds were destroyed by sledgehammer when the company folded but that seems infeasible if they were just copies taken from an original master.

 

[Guest]

I'll bet that's news to a lot of modellers - certainly me!

And me. The reason it came up is because I asked the question if clones (like the old Academy tank kits that are straight copies of Tamiya kits, just with the parts elsewhere on the sprues) should be marked for what they are. Turns out they had discussed that already and decided not to, in part because even if they are clones, then that meant new moulds had been cut for them. So I replied, “What about when the original manufacturer makes new moulds to replace worn ones? Shouldn’t that be new tool as well, then?” and it was basically explained to me that toolmakers don’t think logically like that.

So how do we tell if a kit we buy is from the original mould of 1960 or the latest replacement mould from 1980 - which should produce better castings?

Not a clue, sorry …

And does 'reissue' automatically mean replacement moulds or just new boxart/decals?

On Scalemates? I don’t think it means new moulds — I suspect it just means that the kit wasn’t in the manufacturer’s catalogue for a while, and now it is again.

Now it might be useful to know who actually makes the sprues in the box - is this an Academy mould in a Revell box or vice versa

That, though, is what Scalemates is a very good source for

while I'm reasonaby happy to buy a 1980s mould, I'm reluctant to buy anything from the 1960s.

If it’s a kit boxed in the 1960s, then chances are it will be better-moulded than the same kit in a 1980s box — if the moulds hadn’t been changed, the earlier kit will have been made from less-worn moulds, after all.

 

[Guest]

Does anyone know how the new moulds are made? Are they cast from a negative master or somesuch?

Plastic kit moulds are made from steel, so they’re not simple casts from a master Before CAD/CAM, the model company would make positive masters for all the parts, either at 1:1 scale (in terms of the kit) or larger than that, and then cut the basic shapes for the moulds from a block of steel using a pantograph router running over those originals. I suppose smaller things, like raised panel lines, would then be cut into the cavities created that way.

These days, of course, they’re probably made by a CNC router and/or a spark erosion machine, straight from the CAD drawings.

 

[Dave Ward]

Not something I know much about, but it is very interesting. Does anyone know how the new moulds are made? Are they cast from a negative master or somesuch? I would think if they were cut new each time there would be slight variation over time, especially in the pre digital age. Are moulds and dies different things? Apparently the Rosebud Kitmaster mark I coach moulds were destroyed by sledgehammer when the company folded but that seems infeasible if they were just copies taken from an original master.

For mass production, the moulds/dies are made from high grade steel, that will resist wear from the high pressure injection of molten plastic. They must be stiff enough not to distort under heating These days CNC machine will actually cut the metal - in the old days it was a little more hands on - which generally meant a smaller parts count!

These are Copper State Model Tooling for their Bristol Scout & Garford Putilov
The main factor now is the computer files for creating the CNC machinng programmes, I would think that very few makers have in-house teams for this, being subcontracted to a specialist company. Similarly the sprues themselves will be produced by specialst outfits.
For huge production runs, the highest grade steel will be used - very tough to machine + expensive. If it's only a comparativel short run, then cheaper material can be used - easier to machine, but will erode & distort with prolonged use. Short run models may use aluminium moulds, with lower temperatures & injection pressures to reduce erosion, but with a short life. Resin castings use a master model, from which moulds are made.
I was lucky enough to be involved with these processes, albeit with cast iron & cast aluminium. I would create computer models of what I wanted the final casting to be - these files would be passed to a pattern maker - these patterns were prototyped in resin, from which sand moulds could be made. The resin patterns were only good for about 100 'shots', just enough to prove the casting & machine the prototype parts. If OK, then full steel tooling would be produced. The tooling & casting could be anywhere, Turkey, India, China, Mexico, although the prototyping was done in the UK.
Those were the days when I really enjoyed my work & I never had the Monday morning blues BUT - tight deadlines, stress, long hours, irregular incorrect diet - loads of booze - Hence my Diabetes!!
Dave

 

[Guest]

Oh, and a fun bit of trivia if we’re talking about this anyway: the company with the largest injection-moulding facilities in the world, in terms of sheer number of machines, is Lego. This probably doesn’t surprise anyone who thinks about it. More fun is asking people who the largest tyre manufacturer in the world is, in number of tyres produced annually. Nobody you ask will reply that it’s Lego, but it is

 

[Gern]

If it’s a kit boxed in the 1960s, then chances are it will be better-moulded than the same kit in a 1980s box — if the moulds hadn’t been changed, the earlier kit will have been made from less-worn moulds, after all.

I agree that an early kit from a mould should be better than a later one. But what if they changed the mould in 1979? Then the kit you buy in 1878 may be from very old moulds indeed, and the one you buy in 1980 may be from a new mould - and both may find themselves next to each other on the same shelf in the sales venue. How do we know which one we're getting when we shell out our hard-earned pennies?

I can understand the manufacturers not telling us when kits come from new moulds. If we knew which was which, we'd only buy the new stuff so the old stuff would be left unsold - but that don't make life any easier for us.

Looks like this is yet another can of worms we've opened! :smiling3:

 

[David Lovell]

Announcement ffrom Airfix - on sale next week

I can remember my father helping me to build this, in the early 60's
Dave

My mum was a member of the local TWG i can remember buying a old beat up die cast one corgi? dinky? at one of their jumble sales(who can remember them) always given a few pennies was able to snaggle the best toys and comics/books before the doors opened ahh the days of innocence.

 

[Tim Marlow]

I agree that an early kit from a mould should be better than a later one. But what if they changed the mould in 1979? Then the kit you buy in 1878 may be from very old moulds indeed, and the one you buy in 1980 may be from a new mould - and both may find themselves next to each other on the same shelf in the sales venue. How do we know which one we're getting when we shell out our hard-earned pennies?

I can understand the manufacturers not telling us when kits come from new moulds. If we knew which was which, we'd only buy the new stuff so the old stuff would be left unsold - but that don't make life any easier for us.

Looks like this is yet another can of worms we've opened! :smiling3:

I really wouldn’t stress over that Dave. You’ll end up with the modeller’s equivalent of audiophile nervosa. That’s a HiFi enthusiast disease where you research a purchase for ages, try it out, like it , buy it, get it home, then a little while later wonder if something else would have been better so ruining the enjoyment of what you have.

Just buy ‘em and build ‘em I say…..

 

[Guest]

I really wouldn’t stress over that Dave. You’ll end up with the modeller’s equivalent of audiophile nervosa.

Agreed, at worst you’ll have (more) flash on the parts from the old moulds being worn, which you wouldn’t have had if you had purchased a kit that was made a year later, but that’ll be about it.

 

[Dave Ward]

From MiniArt - the advanced version of their 1/48 Thunderbolt

This has options of open gun bays, dropped flaps, more engine & cockpit detail & a whole range of things to hang under the wings. Be interested to know what this is going to cost - the basic version is around £40. There are at least four other models on the market, hope someone will do a comparison.....................
Dave

 

[Gern]

Agreed, at worst you’ll have (more) flash on the parts from the old moulds being worn, which you wouldn’t have had if you had purchased a kit that was made a year later, but that’ll be about it.

You're right. Sometimes I worry too much!

 

[Tworrs]

You're right. Sometimes I worry too much!

Dave, some wise person once said, "if you worry you die, if you don't worry you still die, so why worry".

 

[Dave Ward]

A new name to me - Big Planes Kits ( BPK ) from the Ukraine..................

If you have a hankering for a 1/72 737, or a Poseidon P-8A https://bigplaneskits.com/product-category/big-planes-kits/
Dave

 

[Dave Ward]

On the IBG Facebook page, - coming soon

Dave

 

[Jim R]

I'll bet that's news to a lot of modellers - certainly me!

Definitely news to me. Worth knowing.

 

[Dave Ward]

From ICM - 'on sale soon'


From MiniArt - ' new kit comong soon '

I know calvados is apple brandy, was there something special about who, or where it was sold?
Dave

 

[Ian M]

From ICM - 'on sale soon'


I know calvados is apple brandy, was there something special about who, or where it was sold?

Normandy in France. Quite a well known area I believe. lol
It was a big deal to those that made it, also those who drank it. It is a very strictly controlled industry.
Also very easy to make at home if you get winters cold enough...

 

[Airborne01]

Normandy in France. Quite a well known area I believe. lol
It was a big deal to those that made it, also those who drank it. It is a very strictly controlled industry.
Also very easy to make at home if you get winters cold enough...

Calvados is the elixir of life! Wish I could afford it (or find it!) here - have to settle for Malborough, Bacardi, or Captain Bob/Doombar! :rolling:
Steve