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Is "Scale-Effect" a myth?

The eyes don’t perceive Laurie, the brain does. Eyes are biomechanical constructs that can turn light energy into electrical signals. They have no perceptive ability. It is the brain that interprets those electrical signals. Some ancient Polynesian languages do not have the words to distinguish between certain colour groups, so individuals brought up in those communities have difficulty discerning differences in those colour groups. They have identical eye structures to us, so do see the colours. It’s just that they lack the language to describe what they see, so don’t see it. There are a number of ancient mariners on this forum, and I bet they have many different descriptions of the sea colours they have seen. However, I further bet none of them have seen the sea looking the colour of a glass of claret. Homer described the sea many times as “wine dark” in his ancient epic “odyssey “ though, so it was how he saw it. This was because the Greek language of the time had not developed the subtlety to distinguish between deep blue and deep red, so those colours were simply not discerned from each other.

Sparrows, actually all birds, have different structures in their eyes that allow their brains to perceive the world differently to us. They see into the ultraviolet spectrum for a start. They have four types of cone (light colour sensitive) cells, and these cells have further adaptations to allow better colour acuity. We only have three, and do not have the further adaptations. This evolutionary improvement allows birds to better discern food supplies at a distance (coloured berries stand out more from the bush background) and to determine between male and female individuals due to visible ultraviolet markers in the plumage. Comparing our vision with theirs is unfortunately therefore comparing apples with oranges.
 
It’s just that they lack the language to describe what they see, so don’t see it.
It’s probably slightly more complicated than that, but basically, yes. A few years ago, I watched (part of) a TV programme about this, and an interesting point it made was that colour perception is, in part, culturally determined — which, of course, leads into the question of how intertwined language and culture are. Anyway, it showed pictures of an experiment done in Southern Africa and (IIRC) Europe, in which people were shown a ring of coloured squares on a computer screen. One of the squares had a different colour than the others, and the test subjects had to point that one out. The thing here is that people would expect everyone to do about as well on that (barring colour blindness, of course, which most people don’t understand correctly anyway too :)) but in practice, it turns out that the Africans couldn’t distinguish some colours the Europeans can, and vice versa.

This ties into:—
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue–green_distinction_in_language


Sparrows, actually all birds, have different structures in their eyes that allow their brains to perceive the world differently to us. They see into the ultraviolet spectrum for a start. They have four types of cone (light colour sensitive) cells, and these cells have further adaptations to allow better colour acuity. We only have three, and do not have the further adaptations.
This applies to most reptiles as well. On the other hand, most non-human mammals are colour-blind by human standards, which is why this:—

View attachment 431890

apparently works quite well as camouflage for hunters who don’t want to get shot by their buddies.
 
So all of these 'accurists' come along and tell us that this colour is correct and the right shade to use on a Friday, but only if you have fish for tea - they then go on to tell us to spray it on when the wind is from the East with the latest shot blasters airbrush set on whisper mode..... And claim that the colour that you are putting on your model has been thoroughly researched with the latest depth perseptive measuing equipment and no other product is as good as theirs!!!! And what comes next is a mystery - you are informed to then spray the model with gloss varnish (which affects the original tone) and after that has dried you lash on layers of filters and washes for a more realistic effect??? So if the original paint was the be all and end all of the colour required, then why the need for all the other by products to tone it down and make it 'pop'???
So the end solution is - go with the nearest colour, then using all the washes and filters along with the pigments, you should arrive at something that looks like the original - or does it???
 
Feel for you Carol living must be hell.

Laurie

I don't know what just happened.

My point was that as humans we are not accurate measuring machines of any nature. Wind chill factor is used by weather forecasters to make everyone slightly more miserable about the weather than they already are. I've worked outside all my life. It feels colder when it's windy. I'm not able to quantify by how much, it's just colder. I don't need a number, just a coat.

Similarly using a meter that is accurate to one billionth of a decibel to tune a set of speakers that are going to be listened to be a human ear that apart from being pretty basic is also attached to a processing unit that has individual preferences is a bit of a waste of time.

So my point was that there may be an accurate scale-effect colour calculation but as has been pointed out by many it's probably not relevant to us mere mortals with our variable eyesight, perception and light sources.

I'm Dan & that is my story.

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'm sat in an hospital car park while herself has a 2 hour appointment & I'm bored !
 
I don't know what just happened.

My point was that as humans we are not accurate measuring machines of any nature. Wind chill factor is used by weather forecasters to make everyone slightly more miserable about the weather than they already are. I've worked outside all my life. It feels colder when it's windy. I'm not able to quantify by how much, it's just colder. I don't need a number, just a coat.

Similarly using a meter that is accurate to one billionth of a decibel to tune a set of speakers that are going to be listened to be a human ear that apart from being pretty basic is also attached to a processing unit that has individual preferences is a bit of a waste of time.

So my point was that there may be an accurate scale-effect colour calculation but as has been pointed out by many it's probably not relevant to us mere mortals with our variable eyesight, perception and light sources.

I'm Dan & that is my story.

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'm sat in an hospital car park while herself has a 2 hour appointment & I'm bored !
Dan,
Take up bus spotting to pass the time ;).
Mike.
 
Actually gonna watch " A Bridge Too Far" on my internet compatible telephonic communicator. Probably in better definition than my eyes can ever appreciate.
 
In my case any shade of 4BO WILL DO !

Joking apart an interesting post.
 
Interesting discussion and interesting article highlighted by Murfie.

I only know what I've read previously and am no expert and am still working out what colours I do and don't like but in relation to the sightly faded look at distance I have a real life example in front of me right now......

We're away camping at the moment and there is a mid blue tent about 15-20 metres away.

Approx. 80-100 metres away is another tent of exactly the same make and model and colour. And it does look slightly paler than the nearer one.

I've walked past the more distant one on a number of occasions and I don't recall it looking noticeably worn/ faded.

Currently it's cloudy but not in a dark overcast way of you get my drift.

ATB.

Andrew
 
There, in a nutshell Andrew, you have the embodiment of the term “blue remembered hills”. Atmospheric particulates scatter light, reducing the intensity of colour. The more there are between the viewer and the object, the more the intensity is reduced! Blue is least affected, so distant objects take on a bluish cast….hence the phrase immortalised by Houseman.
 
So ......ORANGE what came first are they called oranges because of the colour or is the colour called because of the fruit, look down the super market diffrent sizes all diffren shades but they are all orange you don't stand there going thats not correct no because there bloody orange , limes their green and come in diffrent sizes and shades but hey yeh green ,lemons banana's from bright to pale but all are yellow ,what ever colour your tank wingy thing if its recognisable for what it is a certain type mk of tank or wingy thing then hey ho job done . Dave
 
And half of us need glasses so probably can't see bugger all properly anyway :tongue-out3:
 
Guys,Guys.......GUYS!!
...... you`re ALL missing the obvious here,and i can`t believe i`m the first one to point this out,(great thread BTW Dan:thumb2:),
Basically,a colour is a colour..... let`s go to what we ALL know here eh?.... it don`t aft to be complicated.......
The two Primary colours,(Violet and Green for those of the Hard of Thinking).... are the ultimate base for ANYTHING that you`ll ever need to represent.HOWEVER,if you can`t get what you`re after with doing that,and wanna go back to Playskool shades.......just throw in the 5 colours of the Rainbow.......White,Black,Brown,Grey and Beige OBVIOUSLY :astonished:!
.... As for Sizing of things.... "Oh PLEASE"!!:flushed:........
....... I look out of my modelling room window,and see Haytor on Dartmoor..... What do i see?.... Dartmoor miniature Ponies.... and they may be a long way away..... but,"they`re Dartmoor Miniature Ponies" :dizzy::thumb2:.... no big secret...............,just because when i drive up that way they`ve gone,and been replaced by their larger parents doesn`t make Dougal wrong...... C`mon Guys smell the coffee!!
Andy
 
And half of us need glasses so probably can't see bugger all properly anyway :tongue-out3:

Yes & with a total cataract on the right eye I can only see red with the left. I used to be able to see blues with the right.

The surgeon has assured me he will enable the blues & place in an innovation for yellows. He says if i use both eyes i will get grey.

Laurie
 
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